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Amazon Business is awarding over $250,000 to 15 eligible small businesses. There will be 1 Grand Prize recipient who has a chance to receive $25,000 and other Amazon prizes, 4 finalists who each will receive $20,000, 10 semi-finalists who will each receive $15,000 in monetary grant. Amazon Business has awarded over half a million dollars in monetary grants to small businesses since 2022. Grant applications are due by May 24 followed by voting by Amazon Business customers from June 17 – June 28. Recipients will be announced on July 22.

Founders Table is a free event series from Amazon Small Business Academy, for early-stage small business owners to learn from experts and peers while building a sense of community. With each event, we explore a different topic from the unique perspectives of a celebrated business expert, a small business owner, and entrepreneurs like you through fireside chats, a spotlight case study, expert AMAs (Ask Me Anything), and topic-driven networking sessions. Here at Founders Table, everyone has a seat.  

Founders Table All-Stars: Market Expansion

Entrepreneurs and small business owners are always looking to the future. Once your business is up and running, it’s natural to start thinking about how and when to expand. This panel of business experts will share past experiences, caveats and actionable strategies to help you take your business to the next level. Will it require a new product? A new territory? A large influx of capital? We’ll talk about all of it, plus taxes and trademark laws, marketing considerations, and lessons learned. If you’re thinking about what’s next, you’ll want to watch Founders Table All-Stars: Market Expansion.

Founders Table is a free event series from Amazon Small Business Academy, for early-stage small business owners to learn from experts and peers while building a sense of community. With each event, we explore a different topic from the unique perspectives of a celebrated business expert, a small business owner, and entrepreneurs like you through fireside chats, a spotlight case study, expert AMAs (Ask Me Anything), and topic-driven networking sessions. Here at Founders Table, everyone has a seat.  

Founders Table: Scaling with Strategy

Discover the path to funding and financial opportunities at Founders Table: Scaling with Strategy. Watch the recording for first-hand experience, key insights and a few caveats, when growing your business. Prepare to be inspired and empowered by stories about lessons learned, how to navigate chaos in early years, how to set realistic growth goals and meet them.

Our guest speaker, Neil Parikh, Co-Founder of Casper Sleep, will share his expertise during an engaging fireside chat. Having gone from concept to their first sales in just nine months, the five co-founders moved quickly. Neil describes how they made it happen, and why staffing and customer service are so critical to their business. From research and product development, to addressing challenges with supply chain, storage and delivery – Neil shares what it takes to innovate and scale at break-neck speed.

Our small business spotlight shines on New Orleans native Kristen Preau, the founder of Jambalaya Girl, who combined her love of Louisiana, with her family’s traditions of cooking and sharing food in the community – to create a series of boxed spice mixes that make cajun cooking fast, simple and delicious. She’ll share her origin story and some of the decisions she faced in order to grow her business. 

Then, listen in as founders and early-stage entrepreneurs pose questions to our guest experts in a Founders Table favorite: Ask Me Anything. You’ll gain practical insights and strategies to apply to your own business.

Join Amazon at IVMF's Veteran Women Igniting the Spirit of Entrepreneurship (V-WISE), a premier training program in entrepreneurship and small business management. V-WISE helps women veterans and female military spouses/partners find their passion and learn the business savvy skills necessary to turn an idea or start-up into a growing venture.

Join Amazon at SCORE Greater Chesapeake and Potomac's webinar to learn if you’re ready to sell in Amazon’s store and how to get started. Daniel Corcoran, from Amazon’s Small Business Partnerships Team, will explain the fundamentals of selling with Amazon including what to sell and when, how to list and deliver your products, and how to grow and scale your brand online. He will also share information on the resources and programs Amazon has to enable seller and small business success.

Andrea Marquez, Senior Story Producer at Amazon and host of "This is Small Business" podcast, joins Jewel Burks Solomon, a tech entrepreneur, venture capitalist, and managing partner at Collab Capital, in a conversation about how Jewel started, grew, and sold her business along with her tips for other business owners. Jewel's impressive journey includes being the founder of Partpic, acquired by Amazon in 2016, former Head of Google for Startups in the US, and a notable former Amazonian. She's been recognized by Forbes, Ebony Magazine, and is one of Atlanta's influential figures. Hear from Jewel Burks Solomon on her entrepreneurial journey, decisions that shaped her career, insights from her experience at Amazon and Partpic, and her role in bridging the racial wealth gap with Collab Capital. We’ll learn about the making of Partpic, strategies for businesses aiming for acquisition, and tools that were pivotal in building her company.

Jewel's session is followed by an Ask Me Anything panel featuring Jewel, Danyel Surrency Jones (Director of Black Business Accelerator at Amazon), Pernell Cezar (Co-Founder &  CEO of BLK & Bold), and Simone Jordan (Global Head of Purpose & Brand Partnerships at Unilever). Watch as they answer questions from the audience about finding the right funding path, pivoting, and knowing your worth in and out of your business.

Join Amazon at America's SBDC Annual Conference, where attendees gather from SBDCs worldwide to obtain professional development to help them grow as an adviser and help grow the thousands of small businesses they work with every year

Join Amazon at IVMF's VETNET, an event that offers: innovative networking tools, career training, job opportunities, entrepreneurship classes online and at no cost to participants. Transitioning from military to civilian life presents unique and oftentimes-unforeseen challenges. To make things easier and provide structure, a few of the leading organizations in veteran career development have combined forces to create one efficient, easy place to start, VetNet.

Connect with Amazon Business experts and discover the available tools and resources to help your business succeed. Learn why certification matters to your business, and network with Amazon Business customers who are ready to buy.

In this free webinar, learn if you’re ready to sell in Amazon’s store and how to get started. Abby Malchow, from Amazon’s Small Business Empowerment Team, will explain the fundamentals of selling with Amazon including what to sell and when, how to list and deliver your products, and how to grow and scale your brand online. She will also share information on the resources and programs Amazon has to enable seller and small business success.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

Founders Table is a free Amazon Small Business Academy live event series for early-stage small business owners to learn from experts and peers while building a sense of community. Within each event in the series, we’ll explore a different topic from the unique perspectives of a celebrated business expert, a small business owner, and entrepreneurs like you through fireside chats, live spotlight case studies, expert AMAs (Ask Me Anything), and topic-driven networking sessions. Here at Founders Table, everyone has a seat.  

Discover the path to funding and financial opportunities at Founders Table: Capital Quest! Watch the recording from the July 20, 2023 event for an enlightening event designed to help entrepreneurs and small business owners navigate the world of funding and financial opportunities. Prepare to be inspired and empowered as we explore funding routes and strategies for business growth.  Our guest speaker, Arlan Hamilton, Founder of Backstage Capital, will share her expertise during an engaging fireside chat. Arlan has bridged the funding gap for underrepresented founders and will shed light on the venture capital landscape, offering tips for securing funding in today's competitive market. In our captivating case study session, small business owners Barbara Kent & Joanna Serra of Birdy Boutique, a thriving small business, will share their journey of securing funding and leveraging financial opportunities, providing firsthand knowledge of strategies used for bank loans, competitions and grants. Engage directly with our experts to refine your funding strategy and overcome challenges during the Ask Me Anything segment. Gain practical insights to apply to your own business, and connect with fellow participants, exchange insights and meaningful conversations through small-group, topic-focused Braindate networking sessions.

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In this free webinar, learn if you’re ready to sell in Amazon’s store and how to get started. Abby Malchow, from Amazon’s Small Business Empowerment Team, will explain the fundamentals of selling with Amazon including what to sell and when, how to list and deliver your products, and how to grow and scale your brand online. She will also share information on the resources and programs Amazon has to enable seller and small business success.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

Hosted in major US Cities across the Country, passionate Small Business Owners attend Small Business Expo to learn from Industry Experts, meet with best-in-class vendors and suppliers to help them grow their business and network to build important new business relationships. Small Business Expo is the most anticipated event of the year to take strategic action to immediately improve and grow your Small Business. If you are serious about starting or growing your business, Small Business Expo is a must-attend event for you.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

Connect with other military- connected entrepreneurs and the ecosystem that empowers them. This event includes; fireside chats, breakout sessions, networking opportunities with over 150 entrepreneurs and resource providers, the opportunity to highlight your business at the showcase, and more! Topics discussed include trends in entrepreneurship, online retail opportunities, social impact, access to capital, certification, retail procurement, and others. There is a special focus on retail businesses, however there are breakouts and sessions that will be valuable to all military connected entrepreneurs.

Amazon is a leading sponsor of this event.

In this session, learn the five programs that Amazon sellers utilized in the first 90 days of launch to attain healthy levels of sales growth over time. Amazon data scientists have found that sellers who have successfully achieved the Perfect Launch are 5.2x more likely to generate $100K in first-year revenue than other sellers. We will also share information on the resources and programs Amazon has to help enable small business success.

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For more than 50 years, the U.S. Small Business Administration (SBA) has celebrated National Small Business Week, which recognizes the critical contributions of America’s entrepreneurs and small business owners. NSBW is co-hosted by SCORE, mentors to America's small businesses and a resource partner of SBA. The event will include a virtual summit of business education forums where Amazon will host a webinar and virtual booth.

Veteran Women Igniting the Spirit of Entrepreneurship(V-WISE) is a premier training program in entrepreneurship and small business management. V-WISE helps women veterans and female military spouses/partnersfind their passion and learn the business savvy skills necessary to turn an idea or start-up into a growing venture. 

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

The D'Aniello Institute for Veteran & Military Families (IVMF) presents Veteran EDGE, an annual event dedicated to veteran and military spouse business owners and the ecosystem that supports them. Veteran EDGE is dedicated solely to veteran and military spouse business owners and the ecosystem that supports them. Over the course of four days, stakeholders, IVMF program graduates, and veteran and military spouse business owners from around the country gather to network, and learn about the latest opportunities, best practices, and resources available to their growing companies.

Catch a live recording of This is Small Business at Veteran EDGE! Watch as host Andrea Marquez sits down with Matt Butler, Founder of Rollors, as they talk about how he has leveraged his knowledge as a veteran for the planning and growth of his small business. As an in-person audience member, you’ll have the chance to ask Matt your questions. If you’re registered for Veteran EDGE, come check it out on Thursday 3/23 at 5:30pm CST.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

This free webinar will discuss the ways you can build a business with Amazon, including selling in their store, becoming a Delivery Service Partner, self-publishing with Kindle Direct Publishing and much more. You will also learn the resources and programs Amazon has to help enable small business success.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

Hosted in major US Cities across the Country, passionate Small Business Owners attend Small Business Expo to learn from Industry Experts, meet with best-in-class vendors and suppliers to help them grow their business and network to build important new business relationships. Small Business Expo is the most anticipated event of the year to take strategic action to immediately improve and grow your Small Business. If you are serious about starting or growing your business, Small Business Expo is a must-attend event for you.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

Hosted in major US Cities across the Country, passionate Small Business Owners attend Small Business Expo to learn from Industry Experts, meet with best-in-class vendors and suppliers to help them grow their business and network to build important new business relationships. Small Business Expo is the most anticipated event of the year to take strategic action to immediately improve and grow your Small Business. If you are serious about starting or growing your business, Small Business Expo is a must-attend event for you.

Amazon is a proud sponsor of this event.

Founders Table is an Amazon Small Business Academy live event series for early-stage small business owners to learn from experts and peers while building a sense of community. Within each event in the series, we’ll explore a different topic from the unique perspectives of a celebrated business expert, a small business owner, and entrepreneurs like you through fireside chats, live spotlight case studies, expert AMAs (Ask Me Anything), and topic-driven networking sessions. Here at Founders Table, everyone has a seat.  

‍You’ll hear from our guest Sarah Friar, CEO of Nextdoor and Co-founder of Ladies Who Launch, as we explore inspiring stories about resilience and weathering economic storms. You’ll learn practical tips that will help you grow your business as we delve into our topic: “Navigating your Small Business in Economic Uncertainty". In our fireside chat with Sarah, we’ll shine a light on the challenges and unique issues of starting a business in 2023 and what it takes to make the most of an economic downturn. You’ll also get a chance to ask Sarah your questions during our expert Ask Me Anything, and view a small business spotlight case study, featuring Nana Joes Granola and its founder Michelle Pusateri, for recession-savvy tools and creative techniques that will help set you on the path to success. Finally, in our networking sessions, you’ll meet some talented, passionate early-stage entrepreneurs and founders just like you.

Want to know how your culture can give your business an edge? Just ask Mayra Luz Colon, the founder of Healthy Rican, who fused her Puerto Rican roots with her passion for healthy living to create a successful line of mom-approved seasonings. Mayra shares how she overcame imposter-syndrome, connected with her community, and pivoted from coaching to creating a product that resonated with so many people. You’ll also hear from Ramiro Cavazos, CEO of the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce (USHCC), who’ll dive into how Hispanic-owned businesses are shaping the future of entrepreneurship despite the challenges they face and how the USHCC is helping entrepreneurs get access to more capital, contracts and connections, and the tools and resources they need to grow their businesses.

In this special Hispanic Heritage Month episode, you’ll discover the importance of staying connected to your roots, how to build a strong community around your brand, and why empowering Hispanic-owned businesses benefits everyone.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(2:06) How a health issue inspired Mayra to start her business

(4:27) Why Mayra pivoted to a product based business

(6:06) How to get customer feedback and build a supportive community

(8:52) The growth and impact of Hispanic businesses and what makes them stand out

(10:15) How the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce (USHCC) is helping Latino entrepreneurs overcome the challenges they face by focusing on the 3 C’s: access to capital, building connections, and capacity building

(14:50) Why supporting Hispanic-owned businesses benefits everyone

(16:13) How resilience and being open to pivoting can help you build a successful business

Key lessons:

1 - Turn personal challenges into business opportunities: If you’ve faced a problem that no one else is solving, that might just be your golden business idea. Like Mayra from Healthy Rican, who turned her health struggles into a thriving business, so make sure you think about gaps in the market that align with your personal experiences. What challenge can you transform into an opportunity?

2 - Leverage your community for feedback: Your community is a powerful resource—use it! Mayra built trust with her customers by staying in close communication and seeking feedback through email surveys. Engage your audience to fine-tune your products and ideas. The better you listen, the better you serve.

3 - Embrace authenticity: Don't feel like you have to present a picture-perfect brand. Sharing your real journey, including your missteps, can build deeper trust. Mayra’s transparency about her business struggles actually made her customers more loyal. Authenticity is a powerful way to connect with your audience.

4 - Stay open to pivoting: When Mayra saw a growing demand for her seasonings, she shifted from coaching to a product-based business. Flexibility is key in entrepreneurship. Be ready to adapt your business model when new opportunities arise—you never know where they’ll lead.

5 - Seek support: Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Ramiro says that networking and mentorship can provide you with access to capital and essential resources. The right support can be a game-changer.

6 - Your background can be your biggest asset: Ramiro points out that Hispanic entrepreneurs bring cultural insights and a global perspective that not many can’t replicate. So, lean into your roots to make your business stand out in a crowded market.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: A lot of small businesses are born out of a deep connection to community, culture, and identity. For Hispanic entrepreneurs, these roots often run even deeper, influencing everything from the products they create to the customers they serve. I got to see this firsthand, not only with my own family who are all small business owners, but also in the community I grew up in. I was surrounded by Hispanic-owned businesses. So I've seen the influence and the impact that they have. But don't just take my word for it. Here's Ramiro Cavazos, president and CEO of the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, also known as the USHCC.

00:00:41

Ramiro Cavazos: If the 65 million Latinos were our own country, out of the 338 million, we would be the fifth-largest economy in the world. And to put a cherry on top, we're a very young population, and so we represent the business future.

00:01:00

Andrea Marquez: And yet, despite all this?

00:01:02

Ramiro Cavazos: The challenges that Latino-owned businesses face are challenges that all businesses face. It just so happens that they are multiplied for our Latino-owned businesses because research has shown Latino entrepreneurs or applicants for loans get turned down more often.

00:01:19

Andrea Marquez: So how can Hispanic-owned businesses navigate the unique challenges they face from access to capital, to representation? What does it take to turn that cultural connection into a thriving business? And what can we learn from their stories of resilience and innovation? We're here to explore these questions in celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month.

Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be getting into the essential role that Hispanic-owned businesses play in the US. We'll first hear from Mayra Luz Colón, the founder of Healthy Rican, and she shares her journey of blending culture and wellness into a thriving business.

00:02:07

Mayra Luz Colón: As a Puerto Rican, I wanted to start eating healthier. I couldn't find much out there. I couldn't find many resources when it came to making Puerto Rican foods in a healthier way. I've been suffering through a lot of autoimmune issues ever since my early 20s, so I know what it feels like. I've been diagnosed with thyroid issues, Hashimoto's, which is the autoimmune. Unfortunately, in 2017, I was diagnosed with chronic Lyme disease, which is the big mimicker of autoimmune. So I completely understand what it feels like, and I found that there was a lot of women out there, especially Latina women that suffer with all of these illnesses and just don't know what to do with themselves. So I started recreating my foods in a healthier way. And with that, a lot of people just wanted to know what I was doing.

00:02:58

Andrea Marquez: And that led Mayra to write her own cookbook, Healthy Rican: Put the Latin Spice in Your Healthy Life!, and eventually expand into selling her own line of seasonings. But the journey wasn't an easy one.

00:03:10

Mayra Luz Colón: I suffered with a lot of imposter syndrome. I feel like in that health and wellness space, there wasn't many Latinas. So with that, I felt the need. I'm like, "Wait a minute, I just can't be alone. There has to be other people out there that are interested in nutrition and health and wellness." So it was really important to me to introduce my culture. For many, many years, I was sharing about nutrition and my own journey and things like that, but I was never talking specifically about our cultural foods. When I did, people were really interested and I started talking about the seasonings because particularly the seasonings, I couldn't find anything in stores that would fit my needs. I couldn't find anything that didn't have artificial colors in them or a lot of sodium or preservatives, artificial ingredients, and just things that just didn't resonate with me. So I started creating my own. I've been doing them for many, many years just for myself, for my own household. And when I shared that I was thinking about launching this, people were just like, "Yes, when are you doing this? Because I want some."

00:04:20

Andrea Marquez: Mayra decided to listen to our customers and pivoted to a product-based business.

00:04:24

Andrea Marquez: That journey was tough because I had to move away and step back from coaching and from helping people. That is where my heart truly is at. I just love helping people. And wherever we see changes in people's lives, it feeds my soul. So to launch a product-based business, which mind you, I had no idea what I was doing, was tough. I remember there was a lot of testing involved. I would make a batch and add the salt or whatever seasonings, actually cook with them. I would make two different batches and just have my family try it and be like, "Which one do you like best?" For me, it was really important to have my mom's stamp of approval. I felt like I can't be launching anything out there that is not approved by my mom because she taught me how to cook, her food is amazing, and she's very particular.

The first time she came over, I didn't have a business yet, it was just me with my own blend and a little mason jar, and she's like, "Mayra, where's your sazon?" She was making beans or rice or something, and I gave her this little ... And she says, "What's this?" And like, "That's my sazon. I made it." She's like, "It's not going to taste the same." I'm like, "Well, just try it. Let me know what you think." The food was amazing. She's definitely one of the first people that I give a sample to, “Do your magic. Let me know what you think.”

00:05:48

Andrea Marquez: If it has mom stamp of approval, then you know it's good to go. But Mayra also had to get feedback from another important group of people who pushed her to start selling her seasonings: her customers.

00:06:00

Mayra Luz Colón: So I do email. Those are my insiders. I always say anything that I'm going to do, they find out first. I send them an email. I create a survey, so it's really easy. They can answer it in under a minute. And then after that, then I go to social media, and I share there. But email is definitely number one.

00:06:18

Andrea Marquez: The community that Mayra had managed to build was a big reason why she kept on going when things got tough. And the key to fostering such a strong and supportive customer base was clear and consistent communication.

00:06:29

Mayra Luz Colón: Like I said, I did not have a perfect journey. I was just learning along the way and sharing the journey with people. Every time I made a mistake or something happened, I would just go live, like, "Hey, this happened. Hey, we ran out of sazon. I'm sorry." And I would just be really real with people. And I think by doing that, I just gained people's trust and was able to build that foundation that has set me up to have a solid business.

00:06:57

Andrea Marquez: Mayra's journey is a powerful example of turning a personal challenge into a successful business, a path we've seen many entrepreneurs take on this small business, and it's something that Ramiro Cavazos points out as well.

00:07:09

Ramiro Cavazos: I believe that the cause of innovation sometimes comes from challenges. We have seen that because of COVID-19 in '20 and '21, that many folks lost their employment, but it also brought about businesses, especially Latino and Latina-owned businesses that made that adjustment. They started using online platforms, using the internet to provide retail and growth opportunities. So innovation comes from a necessity, and we've seen many of our Latino businesses are growing businesses at six times the rate of other women who are not Latinas. And I believe that the growth we've seen since '20 and '21 has been astounding.

00:08:01

Andrea Marquez: And just like Mayra, Ramiro says that many of these businesses pivoted into other paths that they might not have considered before. When it comes to Hispanic-owned businesses, there are several other unique qualities that set them apart from others.

00:08:14

Ramiro Cavazos: We're a younger population. We're trying new things. We're using technology and innovation, artificial intelligence, and this is an exciting time for business. We're also a community that has done better because we think globally, we speak multiple languages, and that's where online platforms and e-commerce come in. And for us, we're seeing that Latinos and Latinas are embracing that. In the last few years, Hispanic entrepreneurs, they've generated startups that do business online compared to the general population and they were even before the advent of artificial intelligence or even before COVID-19. But as far as businesses, many of them that are doing business, a lot of them are doing e-commerce by focusing on financial services in many instances, also advertising, marketing, building websites, doing translation services. There's so many things. They may not be able to have a job, they may not be able to secure something because maybe of a minor language barrier, but they're starting their own businesses.

00:09:25

Andrea Marquez: Despite their growth and impact, Ramiro says that Latino-owned businesses face challenges that are disproportionately greater than those encountered by other businesses. And that's where the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce steps in.

00:09:37

Ramiro Cavazos: We focus on three things: access to capital, access to building more connections, contracts for our businesses, and the third is capacity building. The first one is, we have looked at the data. Large banks and regional banks lend less to Latino-owned businesses that apply for small business loans. That is something that we need to share with everyone and make aware that that is actually affecting the overall economy. It's people who are ready to grow, scale and create jobs, and oftentimes they are not provided the capital that they need for whatever reason. We need to change that and make it better.

00:10:23

Andrea Marquez: Bridging that gap is beneficial for the country. Why do Hispanic-owned businesses face higher loan rejection rates and what can be done about that?

00:10:31

Ramiro Cavazos: It's a lack of understanding and belief that these businesses will succeed, especially based on the location where they are as a business. They're not your typical suburban, near, newer, more developed areas of retail that are favored by some of the larger banks and the regional bank. So we feel that it's just education that we need to provide, and having more Latinos and Latinos serve on bank boards and regional bank boards. Many of them do not have the diversity in the loan committees that make these decisions.

00:11:10

Andrea Marquez: Another challenge that Ramiro mentioned that Hispanic-owned businesses face is building more connections.

00:11:16

Ramiro Cavazos: We also want to let the US government know and Fortune 1000 firms across the country know that they need to do more business with Latino-owned businesses. We have the skill set and the talent. Again, providing capital would be critical to helping them be in position to do part of the work that the US government needs. Along with Fortune 1000 firms, we have great marketing firms, cyber firms, construction firms, I could go on and on. We're in every field and over indexed in numerous categories, but we only received less than 2% of the business that the US government awards annually. And that's also true for Fortune 1000 firms. That is unacceptable when we are 20% of the population. The third area is really getting our businesses who are just starting out to have the tools. Las herramientas, as we say in Spanish, to have the skills to do business, we just need to help them be in position to get certified and to know how to put a proposal together, and that's where capacity building comes in.

00:12:24

Andrea Marquez: This reminds me of what Mayra mentioned about learning about building a business as she went. Oftentimes, Hispanic-owned businesses are not set up for success. Ramiro says, solutions to more Hispanic-owned businesses start with three Cs.

00:12:38

Ramiro Cavazos: More capital, more contracts and connections, and more capacity building. That's what we do, and that's what every business needs. But, we focus on helping our five million Latino and Latina-owned businesses. The role that we are playing is by serving as a bridge to those communities that we are located in. We have a national association that I have the honor to work with, but these individual chambers have memberships. They have board of directors, they have relationships to the local banks, to the local communities, to local government, and each of them is an economic oasis for those communities. During COVID, they became emergency rooms for small business to find out where contracts existed, where they could find resources, where they could hire people or where they could gain an access capital. So we are all about family in our Latino community as everyone knows, but we've created a family of small business assistance centers throughout the country through our Hispanic chambers.

00:13:48

Andrea Marquez: To sum it all up, empowering and supporting Hispanic-owned businesses comes with a lot of benefits, not just for the entrepreneurs starting or growing their businesses, but for the entire country.

00:13:59

Ramiro Cavazos: It behooves corporate America to do more business with us because we are the growing consumer base for the future. We're the vendors of the future that can give them value in who they hire to do their marketing advertising or to provide catering services at their headquarters.

00:14:17

Andrea Marquez: It's very inspiring to hear everything that the USHCC is doing for Hispanic-owned businesses, because as a border child myself, I've seen that influence and impact of Hispanic-owned businesses firsthand because I grew up seeing Hispanic-owned businesses everywhere. Right? So for me, it was normal. But then I went to college in New York, and that changed my perspective a little. And then I went to Boston for school again, and that changed my perspective as well. There wasn't the same concentration of Hispanic-owned businesses that I was used to, but I also got to see how these communities were growing and how they were also being given resources to expand their brands. And for me, I feel like I've seen the gradual growth and support of these businesses, but I'm also aware of how much we still have to go. So what advice would you give aspiring Latino entrepreneurs, especially with the challenges they might face as they try to build their business?

00:15:17

Ramiro Cavazos: Achieving the American dream is to do it and to do it without hesitation. If you looked at the Fortune 500 firms in this country, 43% of those firms were started and founded by an immigrant or the son or the daughter of an immigrant. And like you, I was born along the US-Mexico border, and everyone was entrepreneurial. It was natural on both sides of the border. My family was entrepreneurial, and it was just something that we did naturally and instinctively. But my advice would be to do it without hesitation, to ask for help, to know that there are groups like the US Hispanic Chamber and their local affiliate that is a part of our chamber that are there to help give them that equitable resources with their local banks for capital.

Last point I would make is, there is not a successful billionaire or a CEO of any company in this economy in America that has not had several business failures as a part of their resume. You need to learn how to succeed by failing. Many of our entrepreneurs that have been incredibly successful, nobody knows the story that they might've had one or two businesses they started that didn't succeed, but they did not give up. They kept on going. And that's the advice I would give to our Latino and Latino-owned businesses, is to move forward and know that you will learn from your challenges and overcome those.

00:16:53

Andrea Marquez: Know that you'll face challenges, but will overcome them, like Mayra, who ended up finding a lot of success because she went all in without hesitation and pivoted when things didn't work out.

00:17:06

Mayra Luz Colón: My journey started in middle school. I was always the one girl selling something, and people that know me know that about me. I sold anything and everything. And I think it wasn't until I truly, truly started following my heart and my gut. I remember I used to be in this other business, and I just kind of flat out quit one day out of nowhere. People were like, "What happened?" I'm like, "It's not my calling." And I need to pursue what I have in my heart.

At that time, I felt in my soul that I needed to go back to school and get the certification to be a nutrition health coach. I just felt that that was my passion. And with that, again, came really embracing my culture. What do you know best? What do you cook 90% of the time? It's going to be Puerto Rican food. So I think following your heritage is great. I think being super authentic and being who you are. I always tell people, show up as you. Don't try to imitate anybody that's out there doing something. They might be great and you might be super inspired and motivated, but you have to be who you are because that's what really resonates with people.

00:18:18

Andrea Marquez: Lean into what makes you you, important words to end on this episode, and that can apply to every entrepreneur. Mayra and Ramiro gave us a ton of helpful information. If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www.smallbusiness.amazon/podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And I'd love to know what you think, so send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts. Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show.

That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening.  

This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Ever wondered how to make influencer marketing a game-changer for your small business? Just ask Brittany Hennessy, the bestselling author of "INFLUENCER: Building Your Personal Brand In The Age of Social Media." Brittany reveals how small businesses can leverage the power of influencers to enhance their brand, reach new audiences, and drive sales. Whether you're new to the influencer marketing scene or looking to refine your approach, Brittany's insights can help you navigate the ever-evolving world of influencer marketing.

Discover strategies for working with influencers, from understanding the different types of influencer marketing to finding a good match for your brand and maximizing conversions.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

(2:07) How starting a blog launched Brittany into the world of influencer marketing and led to her first brand trip.

(4:05) Three powerful ways to boost your brand through influencer marketing: content creation, community engagement, and driving conversions.

(6:25) How you can make influencer marketing work for your small business if you’re on a tight budget.

(7:49) Why picking the right influencer that aligns with your brand and goals is crucial for a successful campaign.

(9:10) Practical tips on how to find the perfect influencer that could take your business to the next level.

(10:53) How to reach out to influencers in a way that’ll make them excited to collaborate with you and build valuable partnerships.

‍

Key lessons:

1 - Brittany breaks down how you can leverage influencer marketing to boost your business in three ways. First, leverage influencers for content creation if you lack the time or resources to create consistent content for your social media pages. Second, tap into their community to engage with their audience. Third, focus on conversions by partnering with influencers who can drive sales. Not every influencer does all three, so make sure you align your goals with the right type of influencer.

2 - Making Influencer Marketing Work on a Budget: If you’re on a budget, Brittany’s advice is to prioritize influencers who focus on conversions. You can also find influencers who work on a commission basis, so you might only pay for results. This approach could make your investment more efficient and also ties your spending directly to sales.

3 - Find influencers that align with your brand: When searching for influencers, Brittany recommends that you look through your followers and existing customers for influencers that might already love your products. This often leads to more authentic and successful collaborations.

4 - Personalize Your Outreach: Instead of sending a generic pitch, take the time to craft personalized messages by acknowledging their unique needs or challenges then showing how your product can help. A thoughtful outreach can turn influencers into enthusiastic advocates for your brand and help you secure a collaboration.

5 - Aim High and Don’t Hesitate: Don’t be afraid to reach out to influencers with large followings if there’s a strong connection with your brand. Many big influencers are open to supporting small businesses especially when you can show them how your product solves a problem they care about.

00:00:01

Brittany Hennessy: Influencers are creators, but they have a different end game. Their end game is to convince you to do something, and that's usually to make a purchase. And so if you're a brand, what you do is you find an influencer who can reach your audience or creator whose content you really like. You hire them to create content around your product, and then depending on who you hired and what you hired them to do, you reap the benefits of having unlimited people at your disposal on the internet who can pretty much reach anyone, which is very cool, but very difficult to get right and very expensive when you get it wrong.

00:00:43

Andrea Marquez: Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. You've probably heard that influencer marketing can be a game changer for your small business, but how do you actually make it work? Today we're talking to Brittany Hennessy, the best-selling author of Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand in the Age of social media. She's been called the Influencer Whisperer and the fairy godmother of influencer marketing because she knows how to turn your online buzz into real-world results. With over 15 years of experience, Brittany is here to share how you can partner with the right influencers to elevate your brand, reach new audiences, and boost your sales.

00:01:22

Brittany Hennessy: I do influencer marketing and then influencer strategy for creators in the creator economy, which is very cool because I get to help brands and small businesses and influencers and the platforms that serve them all figure out how everyone can work together and help them achieve their goals. I love helping small businesses because that's how we get a lot of innovation and a lot of new products. It's because of small business that I think I can do this better. And so I'm always happy to help small businesses hit whatever goals they need so they can stay in business and connect them to influencers who like working with small businesses because there are definitely a lot of them.

00:02:00

Andrea Marquez: Before Brittany entered the world of influencer marketing, she was trying to keep her writing sharp by starting a blog after she graduated from journalism school.

00:02:08

Brittany Hennessy: My blog was about New York nightlife and I didn't really think anyone was reading it, which just goes to show you, you never know. You only really need one person to be reading your stuff for anything to happen.

00:02:20

Andrea Marquez: Then she got an email that said-

00:02:22

Brittany Hennessy: Hey, we love your blog. We are putting together a list of people to go on this trip. It was for a major skincare brand and it was in Germany. I said, we're putting together this list and about five people have told us that we have to send you on this trip, so we are pretty sure that you need to go. They asked me, “Do you have a passport?” I had never left the country at this point. I did not have a passport, but instead of telling them that, I said, “Yeah, I have a passport.” They're like, “Great, we leave in two days.”

And so now I'm frantically Googling, can you get a passport in two days and you can, especially in New York. And so I ran down, got my passport, and then two days later I was on a flight to Germany and then they paid me just to post about it and I could not believe I was getting paid for this.  

And then I was an ambassador for the brand for an entire year, and so religious showcasing their products and telling everybody how much I liked them, and I think that was the first time I had seen anything like that. And I loved it, and I said, “As much as I enjoy going on the trips, who planned this and how can I do some of that?” And so then I got deeper into social, deeper into influencer, and I've been here ever since.

00:03:35

Andrea Marquez: From a last-minute passport dash to showing up in Germany, that's influencer marketing in action. But beyond the glitz and glamour, there's more to working with influencers that small businesses can think about. To make the most of it, you need to understand the different ways you can work with influencers and how these approaches align with your business goals. Brittany breaks down how you can work with influencers in three ways. The first is through their content.

00:03:58

Brittany Hennessy: If you're a small business, you probably spend most of your time running your business. You don't necessarily have time to do reels and TikToks and YouTube because you're running a business. You have other things to do, but you can hire creators just to create content for you. And you'll hear people call that UGC, but I would say that's not entirely correct. UGC is usually your customer.  

So someone who bought your product, received it, posted some content, and it's like, “Oh my God, I love this.” But it's not professionally done. This isn't what they do for a living. It's very natural. I probably would call it like IGC. So it's influencer generated content or creator generated content. So you can hire them to make content for you, you can buy the rights to it and then you can post it on your socials, you can put it in your shop, you can send it in your digital marketing, but you're essentially hiring them as a content studio.

00:04:49

Andrea Marquez: The second is through their community.

00:04:51

Brittany Hennessy: And this is when you want to find someone very specific. So it might be you need someone who owns a dog or you need a parent or you need someone who travels a lot or someone who drives or someone who's decorating their home. Whatever it is, you need someone who's doing that because the chances are their audience is also doing that. And then we will buy your product. And so that's community tapping into the people, the influencer or creator talks to on a regular basis.

00:05:18

Andrea Marquez: And the third is through conversions.

00:05:20

Brittany Hennessy: You need people who can actually sell your product. And so that is a very specific type of influencer. So lots of people follow creators or influencers because the content is nice to look at or they're funny or it makes them feel good. Not everyone follows them to shop, but there is an influencer who they are shopping mavens and it's like going to any popular shopping program. You open their feed and they're like, “This is what I have.” They're telling you the measurements, the texture, what material it's made of. They are walking, talking, copy for your product. So those are the three ways to look at it. Do you need content? Do you need access to a community or do you need conversions? And the best influencers can do all three, but they're like unicorns. They're very hard to find.

00:06:07

Andrea Marquez: All three sounds super useful and important for any business, but if you're working with a tighter budget, Brittany says that you might want to prioritize conversions.

00:06:15

Brittany Hennessy: You can tie it directly to revenue because you can see this is how much I'm selling. And influencers who like commission tend to really just enjoy that piece. They don't necessarily need you to pay them some large amount to do it, but they will negotiate their commission rate with you. So they might say, “Hey, I'll do this, but I want 35% or 55% of the product.” And so those are even harder to find, but they exist. They exist, they're around.  

After that, I would pick content creation because the creator doesn't necessarily need to be in the content, so it tends to be more affordable. And then the most expensive one is access to their community. Sometimes it's the most beneficial depending on who you are and what you're selling, but you are paying them for the years of hard work that they have put in to build this community that will listen to them, which is why it costs the most.  

So I would go for conversions first, content second, community third, because sometimes if they really like the product and you hire them from conversions, they'll send you the content and they'll post it anyway just because it's what they do. So you might get lucky and get all three for the price of one.

00:07:24

Andrea Marquez: After you've set your goals, make sure the influencers you choose are the right partners to help you achieve them.

00:07:30

Brittany Hennessy: I think where people run into a lot of trouble is they hire someone who can get their audience to feel very good about a product, but what they really wanted was conversions. And so when they don't get conversions, they're like, “This thing was a flop.” When in reality you picked the wrong person for what you are trying to achieve. So that's why the most important thing is how will I know this is successful? And then it's because X will happen. Okay, great. If I need X to happen, who do I hire who can do X? And it's totally fine to just ask an influencer like, “Hey, my goal for this campaign is X, Y, Z. Can you help me do that?”

Because an influencer might say, “I love this product, but to be honest, I can't help you do that. What I can help you do is this other thing.” And then you can decide. But if you don't tell them that you don't give the influencer a chance to let you know that maybe they're not the best partner. And sometimes if they're not the best partner, they'll say, “I can't help you with conversions. I can help you with content, but my friend also loves your product and she's a conversion queen.” And so enough influencers know each other that they can give you a recommendation if you know exactly what you're looking for.

00:08:40

Andrea Marquez: And that leads us to our next point. How do you find these influencers?

00:08:45

Brittany Hennessy: So if you're a small business and you have some social channel, the odds that someone who is an influencer who already likes your brand is high. So I would always comb through all your followers, go through your mailing list and see if anyone's got a domain. Look at their website. If they are already an influencer and they like your brand, that's your easiest because they'll be so honored that you reached out to them. They'll be like, “Oh my God, I love you. How did you know?” So I tell people, look through your current customers first.  

If you've combed through that and you are like, we don't have any influencers, or maybe you don't have a strong social media presence yet, I would then go look at your competitors and see who follows them. Because if you have a better feature or your version is waterproof or something like that, that's a good audience of people who like something and may also like yours.

So I would go through and then I would make a list of influencers, and then I would take a look at the content they create and just see do they talk about other products? Are they tagging them? Is it sponsored? Just so you get an idea of if you approach them, will they say yes or no? Because outreach is the most difficult part about working with influencers, but you can really cut down on a lot of fruitless work if you really look through their profile and see what are the odds that this person would say yes based on how much of their profile looks like what you're trying to get them to do.

00:10:18

Andrea Marquez: Once you've identified a few influencers who align with your goals, the next step is to reach out to them.

00:10:23

Brittany Hennessy: It can seem efficient to have one email and send it to lots and lots and lots and lots of influencers and hope something sticks, that fire hose method. That doesn't work because it looks very spammy and it's just a waste of time because the only people who will respond to that are people who like free stuff and that's not really who you want. So I would say it's much better for you to take the time and it's painful, but if you do it right, you only have to do it once and come up with a solid list of influencers that you want to work with and write them individual letters.

It's very similar to applying for a job. You wouldn't just send the same cover letter and resume to everyone. You would tweak it for the specific position. You can write a very large influencer and say, “Hey, I saw this post that you made with your kid and you were saying you wish you had X, Y, and Z because it would make your life so much easier. Well, guess what? I made that product and I'd love to send it to you. And if you like it, it would mean the world to me if you share it with your audience because the more of these I solve, the more these I can make and I can keep solving this problem for moms like you.”

If I'm a big influencer, I'm like, first of all, you saw my content. Second of all, you solved my problem. Third of all, you want to send me a free one, which is great, and if I like it, I want to be able to buy it from you now in five years, in 10 years. So I want you to stay in business, and influencers can help you stay in business if you point out to them that you know a post from you could change my business, because it's true. There are so many influencers who want to pay it forward, so they would be willing to help a small business because they built this platform and now they're in a position to do so. You always hear advice to small businesses that's like start small because of your budget. You can do that.  

If you find someone you like, you should hire them regardless of size. But don't be afraid if you find someone perfect and they have a million followers, it might take a while to get to them, but don't be afraid to pitch them if you really can find the fit and if you're really solving a problem for them, because at the end of the day, they're just a customer.  

They're just a customer who with a few social posts could change the course of your business, but they're still a customer. So you are solving a problem for them just like you're solving a problem for a customer with no followers. And if you remind them that they can help you and why you chose them, you can really have access to anybody you want.

00:12:45

Andrea Marquez: I love that reminder. Influencers are also customers that can change the course of your business. I feel like it makes approaching influencer marketing a little less intimidating. That was Brittany Hennessy, the bestselling author of Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand in The Age of Social Media. We covered a lot in this episode.  

If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think or if there's anything else you'd like me to talk about.  

So, send us an email at Thisismallbusiness@amazon.com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts. Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show. That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.

Want to make sure everyone knows about your product before it launches? Just ask Jay Clouse, the founder of Creator Science, who was able to generate six figure sales within the first few days of launching his product, Creatore HQ, all thanks to a carefully thought out pre-launch strategy. Jay shares his approach to building anticipation through consistent communication and engagement with his audience and why you should be planning your launch months before your product hits the market.

Learn how to leverage your audience, what incentives to offer, and how to build an engaged audience that wants to buy your upcoming product.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

(1:44) Why you should be talking about your product months before it launches.

(3:24) How you could see who might be interested in your upcoming product and reach them.

(4:58) Jay breaks platforms down into two categories: Discovery platforms and relationship platforms. Learn the difference between both types and how to use them to build an engaged audience that will buy your product when it launches!

(6:49) How consistently posting can build trust.

(8:29) Should you have a discount or a special incentive when you first launch?

(9:24) How to keep the momentum after you launch.

Key lessons:

1 - Build the Hype: Start talking about your product months before launch to build anticipation and keep your audience on their toes!

2 - Use different platforms: Mix discovery platforms with relationship platforms to get the best of both worlds—reach and trust. Jay emphasizes the importance of balancing discovery platforms and relationship platforms in your pre-launch strategy. Discovery platforms, like social media and podcasts, help attract new audiences by getting your content in front of fresh eyes. Relationship platforms, like email lists and newsletters, deepen connections with your existing audience, turning interest into loyalty. Together, they create a powerful combo that drives both initial excitement and long-term engagement, key to a successful launch.

3 - Stay Consistent: Promise your audience regular updates and deliver like clockwork. Consistency builds trust and keeps people coming back for more!

4 - Forget discounts—add value instead! There's a time and place for discounts, but Jay warns that discounts can devalue your product over time, making it seem less valuable. Instead, offer exclusive bonuses during your launch to make your product even more tempting. By adding value, like special features or additional content, you enhance the appeal without lowering the price. This strategy not only boosts sales but also maintains the integrity and perceived worth of your product.

5 - Focus on Your Own Numbers: Don’t get caught up in comparing yourself to others. Keep your eyes on your own metrics and keep pushing forward.

00:00:00

Jay Clouse: I took extra time to build this anticipation. I historically have not done this multi-months lead-up to a product launch. At most in the past, I've done a pre-sale, which is good because that de-risks the creation of a product. You can basically validate whether people want it because they'll actually pay you for it or they will not. So I used to do pre-sales and then say, “By the way, this is now fully available.” But this anticipation was different because it really front-loaded the awareness and consideration, and decision steps before they had the opportunity to purchase.

00:00:33

Andrea Marquez: I am your host, Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we're diving into a critical aspect of launching any product, the pre-launch strategy.  

Building excitement and anticipation before your product hits the market can make all the difference in its success. Whether you're launching your first product or adding a new one to your existing product lineup, understanding these strategies can give you a significant edge and drive sales.  

To help us explore this topic, we'll be talking to Jay Clouse, the founder of Creator Science, a media company dedicated to supporting professional creators. Jay is a powerhouse in the creator economy with more than 60,000 newsletter subscribers, 2 million podcast downloads, and over 4 million views on YouTube. And to stay consistent and organized, he built his own operating system to run his business.

00:01:32

Jay Clouse: And as I showed that system to people in my membership, the lab, and just other creators that I came across, people's eyes just got so big and they're like, “Can I have this?”

00:01:43

Andrea Marquez: It took Jay three years to build that operating system that he calls CreatorHQ, and within the first four days of its launch, he generated around five figures in sales. But of course, to get there, it took Jay a lot of preparation.

00:01:58

Jay Clouse: I started productizing my system in January of this year. I didn't launch the product until April. So for that four month period, even though there was part of that time that I was actually building the product, I was communicating with my audience about the product, telling them what it was going to be included, asking their opinion about what they would like to see as part of it to make sure that I wasn't missing anything totally critical.  

And at least on a weekly basis, I was talking about the product before it was even available, and I think that is probably the most important part of the pre-launch process for CreatorHQ was just months talking about it before it was available. Because if you think about any purchasing decision, you have to be aware that it exists. You have to understand what it does, you have to consider whether you want to purchase it, and then you actually have to take action.

And a lot of creators will try to compress all of those steps for the consumer on one launch email or something. And really you can front load three of the four of those things. You can front load awareness, you can front load the education of what it does for them. You can front load the opportunity for them to consider whether they want to buy it or not, so that when you actually go to launch, you can say, “This is available now, would you like to purchase it?” And it's actually a very short consideration period because they've already convinced themselves, “When this is available, I would like to purchase it.”

00:03:19

Andrea Marquez: A big part of Jay's pre-launch strategy is his email list. We've talked about the power of email lists with Jenna Kutcher in our last season, so check that episode out if you want to dig into them. But instead of sending emails about his upcoming product to his entire list, Jay decided to target only those who were interested in it.

00:03:37

Jay Clouse: Every time I would talk about the product, I would say, “ By the way, if you want to be the first to know about this, click here to join the wait list.” And so that list, that was what I was watching most closely during that pre-launch period to see is that number growing? Because one, that's validation that people want this, and two, that's going to be actually the most likely segment of your list to purchase the product.  

So during the launch, I sent 10 total emails about the product, and seven of those I sent to the wait list segment, three I sent to the rest of the list.If you have people opt in to being sold to, rather than just constantly blanket selling to everybody on the list, people are going to have a better experience opening your emails. So of those segments, the majority of purchases came from that wait list while also being a minority of the total subscribers on the list.  

So it's a great way to maintain high quality relationships and email hygiene. It's basically say, “ I'm making a thing, I'm going to tell you about it. If I piqued your interest, click here and you'll be the first to know about it. Basically click here and I'll tell you when you can buy it. And if not, no harm, no foul. I won't bug you as much with it.”

00:04:51

Andrea Marquez: Jay already had a platform and an engaged audience when he was working on launching CreatorHQ. But if you're still in the early stages of building an engaged audience, you're probably scrambling around to figure out what medium and platforms to use. To simplify that decision, here's how Jay breaks down the different options.

00:05:10

Jay Clouse: I broadly put them into two camps. One camp is discovery platforms. These are platforms that have a built-in mechanism for new audience to discover your content through it. Usually it's an algorithm. These platforms are usually ad-supported and they're free to use. These have built-in discovery algorithms, a great way to get in front of new people. The risk is the rules of those platforms change all the time, and you are not guaranteed to actually reach the people who have said, “I want to hear from you.” The second bucket are relationship platforms.  

These are platforms where there is no third party intermediary between you and the end consumer. They're more decentralized, and your ability to communicate with those people is more consistent and reliable. This would be email, podcasting, SMS and private communities. So I recommend folks start with one discovery platform and one relationship platform.  

So for me, my goal is to get as many people over to email as possible, and everything I do on the discovery side is for the goal of getting people to be aware that my newsletter exists and to give it a shot. And then email is really where I do my best writing. It's where I share everything first and the most in depth, but it's a higher commitment to read it and engage with it. Whereas on social media, these are just little sound bites. It's like an audition.

00:06:34

Andrea Marquez: But whatever platforms you decide to use, make sure you stay consistent.

00:06:40

Jay Clouse: Just the act of saying, “You can expect to hear from me every Sunday at 9: 00 AM,” and then fulfilling that week after week, after week after week. People have, in some cases, several years worth of cycles of me fulfilling promises that I've made to them. It's huge for building trust to basically tell your people what they can expect from you and then deliver that even as simply as, “I'm going to publish something on this day at this time,” and doing that over and over and over again.  

So it's been this incremental effort of publishing more and more, and more for the same type of person. That consistency, not just in how often I'm publishing, but what I'm talking about, what I'm helping you do, who this is for, that has been consistent as well.Because we're humans and we contain multitudes, and we have various interests, we'll publish things on all these different interests, which makes it really difficult to attract an audience that you truly understand because now the audience is really fragmented, and now it's actually hard to serve that audience week after week because topic A and topic B, and topic C aren't even related, so which one do you talk about? Whatever one you talk about, you're going to alienate the people who are not interested in that at all. It's very challenging.  

So being consistent, not just in how frequently you're publishing, but what you're talking about and how you're helping people who you're helping is a big, big part of attracting an audience that knows who you are, likes what you have to say, and trusts you to follow through on whatever it is that you're promising.

00:08:10

Andrea Marquez: Jay also set up a special incentive to give people a little extra nudge when CreatorHQ launched.

00:08:17

Jay Clouse: I used the first four days of the launch to have some fast action bonus, basically saying, “If you purchase in the next four days, you'll get these bonuses on top of it,” so a little bit of an incentive there. A lot of people will use the inverse of that tactic and say, “For the first four days, we'll give you this discount,” and there's a time and place for discounts. People who opted into the wait list for the product, they had a 10% discount as a thank you for taking the action of saying, “I want to learn more about this.” But a lot of times are used as a crutch, and over time devalue the product that you have. So I instead like to have a positive addition on top of the base product during a window of time rather than saying, “This thing, but for a lower price.”

00:09:01

Andrea Marquez: And that work doesn't end when you launch, so how do you maintain that growth even after the incentive expires?

00:09:10

Jay Clouse: The sustained growth, we have to define what growth is in terms of what growth do we care about. And most creators would define the growth they care about as probably a following number or a number of views, or a number of impressions. So they're literally saying, “ I want to see growth in attention.” My point of view is you need to get a return on that attention, and you want to see growth in your return on that attention.  

There are some beautiful businesses that have a much smaller means of distribution that are revenue machines. They're so efficient at turning the attention they're getting into very viable, very safe, very scalable businesses, and then you have the inverse of huge scale in terms of number of people that you're reaching and driving almost no revenue. So revenue is a great metric for your return on attention. I think that's what I would optimize for growth for.

So if you are currently attracting a lot of attention on one of these platforms, and the goal is, “How do I sustain? How do I continue to grow?” And I'm flipping the switch and you're saying, “How do I grow revenue?” You need to start building your own means of distribution. You need to say, “Okay, let's figure out what email as a part of my strategy looks like,” or, “let's figure out what podcasting or even SMS. So how do these relationship platforms fit the model? How do I drive people from my discovery platforms to my relationship platform, and then sell from their relationship platform?”

Because it's easier to sell from a relationship platform. It's easier to make the leap from a hyperlink in an email or a hyperlink in a text to a purchase page. So that's the strategy that I would really have people think about. Think about your discovery platform as the very top of the funnel. It's where you're auditioning for a new audience. It's where you're reaching new people. That platform exists to help you build your own system of distribution in email, SMS, podcasting, or private communities. And then that is where you develop trust that you need to lead to a transaction.

00:11:07

Andrea Marquez: And whether you're measuring the attention on your product or your revenue, if that number isn't as high as you'd like it to be, keep going. You'll get there.

00:11:16

Jay Clouse: Our tendency as human beings is to look at other people's numbers to benchmark how we are doing relative to our peers or other people. We want to see that our progress is good or our thing is working. Just look at the most important numbers to you and consistently try to move that in a positive direction. Because if you do that and you ignore everybody else's numbers, you're going to get the results you're looking for just by focusing on your own baseline and moving that in a positive direction.

00:11:45

Andrea Marquez: That was Jay Clouse, the founder of Creator Science. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcast.  

Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think, so send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts, maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show. Here's one from the one and only Amy Porterfield, who we had on the show last season. This podcast is your one-stop shop to what's working now, entrepreneurial strategies and valuable mindset shifts that will help you experience the kind of success you're looking for in your business. Don't sleep on this podcast. It's exactly what you need to get to the next level.

Thank you, Amy. I can't wait to speak to you again. And if you haven't already, make sure to go check out Amy's podcast, the Online Marketing Made Easy Podcast. That's it for this episode of This is Small Business brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Wondering if your small business is ready to scale and how to smoothly transition into e-commerce? Just ask Val Fishbain, co-founder of Spread the Love Foods, who successfully took her business from the local farmer’s market to the online world, all while staying true to her community roots. Val shares her experience selling at farmer’s markets, what it took to make the leap to e-commerce, and the importance of giving back as her business grew. You’ll also hear from Viridiana Ponce, a business consultant and food industry expert, who dives into how to leverage farmer’s markets to enhance your business and the crucial steps for expanding beyond your local market while staying connected to your community.

Learn the essential steps for scaling up like maintaining product quality, engaging with your community, and conducting market research to confidently take your business online.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

(2:28) How Val’s thoughtful wedding favor quickly turned into a full-blown business.

(4:22) Thinking of starting a food business from home? Learn the preparation and licenses to make sure you do it right!

(5:41) Val’s first experience selling her products at a farmer’s market.

(9:34) The benefits that come with starting at a farmer’s market.

(10:44) How tracking sales at a farmer’s market can help you get funding.

(11:40) When should you consider expanding? Viridiana lists what you should be looking for to make sure you’re ready for that next step.

(15:02) Three essential strategies for a successful transition to e-commerce.

(18:58) How giving back through your business can help your business grow and succeed.

Key Lessons:

1 - Follow your local food regulations. Before you start whipping up delicious treats in your home kitchen, make sure you acquire the proper licenses and equipment to do it. The regulations vary by state and dictate what types of food you can sell, where you can sell them, and how they must be labeled.

2 - Use farmer's markets for feedback. The feedback Val received led to crucial changes like simplifying their peanut butter recipe and upsizing the jar size. So, if you’re at a market, don’t just sell—observe, listen, and adapt based on what customers love (or don’t love) about your product.

3 - Track every sale. If you’re dreaming of scaling up, data is your best friend. Viridiana stresses the importance of using a POS system to track your sales. This data is your ticket to securing loans or attracting investors when you're ready to expand. Plus, it can help you uncover trends, understand customer behavior, and make informed decisions. So, start tracking those sales from day one!

4 - Make sure you get professional help when you need it. Val hired a consultant to help their e-commerce transition go smoothly. Remember, it’s okay to ask for help—it could save you time and money in the long run.

5 - Document everything. As you scale, consistency is key, and that means documenting your recipes and processes. Viridiana points out that having everything written down not only helps maintain quality but also makes scaling much easier.

6. Plan for costs. Transitioning your business online can be a game-changer, but it can get expensive. Take the time to thoroughly plan and budget, so you don’t find yourself scrambling for funds later. Viridiana says that a well-planned financial strategy will help you avoid making decisions out of urgency and ensure a smoother, more successful transition into e-commerce.

7. Remember to stay connected with the community that helped you grow. Whether you're participating in local events, supporting nonprofits, or simply being a present and caring business owner, these connections are key to building a loyal customer base. And giving back doesn't have to be costly—start small, and let your impact grow alongside your business.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: Most businesses start small, and sometimes there's a point in your small business journey where you want to start growing. You might want to reach a larger audience, increase your revenue, or maybe even outsource manufacturing, packaging, and shipping because the demand for your products is more than you can handle. But that transition comes with its own set of challenges.

How do you know if you're ready for this next step? How can you maintain the quality of your products as you scale, especially if you're a consumer packaged goods business? And how can you continue to serve the community that brought you to a point where you can expand? I know it sounds like a lot, but don't worry. We'll be answering all these questions with the help of Viridiana Ponce, a business consultant and food expert dedicated to helping small businesses launch and grow.

00:00:49

Viridiana Ponce: As we're getting ready to think about that expansion, the focus should always be on our customer experience. And how can we always maintain and provide a consistent and easy and positive customer experience? That should always either stay the same or improve. And I think that if we always put ourselves in the shoes of our clients or of our potential clients, that'll be really helpful as we're thinking through creating this experience, and as we're thinking about expanding. Because as we're growing, we want to make sure that we're not losing that quality of our product or of our service.

00:01:32

Andrea Marquez: Viridiana, like me, is a Latina who grew up in a small business household. That inspired her to start her own business, VP Consulting, where she helps food entrepreneurs launch, grow, and secure funding. She's been doing this for over 10 years now and has worked with many food businesses. She'll be sharing everything you might want to know, as you think about expanding your business.

Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today, we'll be diving into how to grow your business from selling at a farmer's market to online, a scary but exciting process. And we'll also talk about how you can continue to give back to the community that gave you the opportunity to expand. A business that managed to undertake this challenging task is none other than Spread The Love Foods.

00:02:30

Val Fishbain: Spread The Love Foods is a challenger brand. We make nut butters, jams, and basically spreadables. We focus on our DTC customers online through Amazon and through our website. And we focus on fulfilling businesses' needs as well.

00:02:51

Andrea Marquez: That's Val Fishbain, the Co-Founder and President of Spread The Love Foods. She co-founded her business around 11 years ago with her husband Zach, when they were planning their wedding.

00:03:02

Val Fishbain: We were looking for something special to give to our friends and family who were coming to our wedding. We were trying to do something from the heart. And then one day we were eating breakfast, and I was making the peanut butter off of my Vitamix blender, and just thought, "We can make nut butters, peanut especially, and give this to our guests, and call it Spread The Love. Wouldn't that be cool?"So, most of our friends and family enjoyed it and told us, "You guys, you can make a business out of this. This is pretty special."

00:03:40

Andrea Marquez: Okay, so you received positive feedback during your wedding. And then did you decide to just ditch the honeymoon and open an LLC?

00:03:50

Val Fishbain: Okay, we had a mini moon, is what we called it. And then we came home and we're like, "All right, Spread The Love, peanut butter. Let's do it. How do we start?"Literally the Monday after our wedding, we started looking at, how can we get a cottage food license? How can we make this in our kitchen and have it be health department approved?

00:04:16

Andrea Marquez: Starting a food business from your kitchen comes with a lot of responsibilities. And before you even consider selling your products at a farmer's market, first you need to get the proper licenses and approvals.

00:04:27

Viridiana Ponce: There's still really stringent health and safety standards that operators need to make sure that they follow. And if people want to get into farmer's markets or festivals or different types of events, they need to make sure that they're following and complying with their local health department. And in order for you to also have that confidence in being able to sell your product, then I would say you definitely want to make sure that you're getting your health permits.

00:04:54

Andrea Marquez: And Viridiana also says that you might need to spend a little more money if you do decide to start at home.

00:04:59

Viridiana Ponce: Sometimes we don't have all of the equipment at home or the commercial equipment that we may need in order to produce a specific product. And so, it's going to take an investment. And then I would also say that sometimes people can blur their personal and professional space or the time that they're working. And so, that can make it also a little bit more challenging.

00:05:21

Andrea Marquez: Once you move past these challenges, you're finally ready to put your product out there for people to buy. And Val did that by going to farmer's markets.

00:05:30

Val Fishbain: It literally took us a week. And I had a full-time job as a social worker, and Zach also had a full-time job, so there was just a lot of stuff going on. Tired is something that I remember feeling. We had to roast the peanuts two days before we ground it, because otherwise it will stick into the grinder. And then packaging the peanut butters into jars. And I believe back then in the beginning, we even tied little strings around the jars. And it took a lot of convincing from Zach to convince me to stop doing that 'cause it was just taking so much time and effort.

That and then the setting up, carrying the loads and loads of boxes of peanut butter from the house to the car, and then from the car to the farmer's market booth. And then from there, you're standing on your feet six hours, six hours of talking to people, one-on-one. And not just one person needing your attention, maybe three people at once.

We started selling our jars. We put on a big smile, big energy, started talking to people, and people received it so well. It was fun, it was exciting, it was exhilarating. Zach and I are newlyweds and we were doing something together again, coming from planning our wedding to now planning a business together. So, it was pretty much a marathon. It was a lot of hard work and very rewarding, because we did get a lot of feedback from people.

00:07:12

Andrea Marquez: And the feedback they got helped them refine their product.

00:07:16

Val Fishbain: I didn't tell you that the nut butters that we made in the beginning, had agave and cinnamon and cayenne pepper on it. We were trying to be gourmet, so that was the wedding peanut butter. But then at the farmer's market, people were giving us feedback that, “Oh, I don't like cinnamon.”, or, “I don't really like spicy cayenne.” “Agave is bad for me.”

So, that's when we got the idea of like, “Well, why don't we make a peanut butter literally made out of peanuts and this is going to be our main peanut butter?” And that peanut butter sold out within a few hours. Another thing that changed is the size of the jar. We had eight ounce jars before and the eight ounce jars weren't enough for some people. So, we ended up doing it in 16 ounce jars.

00:08:19

Andrea Marquez: So farmers' markets are a great place for market research. This is something that Viridiana points out as well.

00:08:25

Viridiana Ponce: We want to learn as much as we can about our clients and what's important for them. But we also want to pay attention to who's not purchasing our products, and why are they not purchasing? What are their objections? Are people saying that it's too expensive? Are people giving you feedback after they taste the product? So I think that is so important, so valuable that we also pay attention to the people that are not purchasing.

00:08:53

Andrea Marquez: That's exactly what Val did. And there's another long-term benefit to selling your products at a farmer's market.

00:09:00

Viridiana Ponce: It gives you that one-on-one connection and that time, and for you to be able to practice your elevator pitch and to really learn about who your clients are and what's resonating with them.  

And so, I'm thinking about a client who started a salsa business. And they began by offering samples and sharing the history behind their family's recipes, talking about their culture. And people really gravitated to that authenticity and really connected with their story. And obviously were able to taste their product and it's an amazing product.  

But I feel like it really helped connect and build that trust with their community because they knew more about them than, “Okay, this is just a salsa business.” If you're going to be at a farmer's market, put yourself out there. This is an opportunity for us to get to know more people, and for people to be able to get to know our product.

00:09:54

Andrea Marquez: Getting the word out about your business is really important. But while you're doing that, make sure that you're also tracking your sales because that might help you when you decide to expand.

00:10:04

Viridiana Ponce: What I've seen is that when my clients have a POS system and they're registering their sales, tracking their sales, then we can use that information later on to get a loan. Because now they have sales, they have it recorded, they're able to obtain funding slightly easier because once again, we have data that we can share with either micro lenders or with investors. And if you're using a POS system, then we can gather data on the average check size. We can see trends, purchasing patterns, and just overall sales. So, it's a really great opportunity to gather and analyze data.

00:10:42

Andrea Marquez: That's a great tip. When you decide to expand and need a little extra cash to fund your business, having that data will probably make things a lot easier. And you'll know when you're ready to take that next step by asking yourself a few questions about your customers.

00:10:58

Viridiana Ponce: How are people receiving the product? If they're enjoying the product, what's the feedback that you are getting, once we start seeing that we have those repeat clients? And seeing, why are they coming back? How often are they coming back? And so, I think that making sure that we're listening to our clients is really important.

I think that also as we're getting ready to think about that expansion, the focus should always be on our customer experience. And how can we always maintain and provide a consistent and easy and positive customer experience? That should always either stay the same or improve.  

And I think that if we always put ourselves in the shoes of our clients or of our potential clients, that'll be really helpful as we're thinking through creating this experience, and as we're thinking about expanding. Because as we're growing, we want to make sure that we're not losing that quality of our product or of our service. And so, I would say really focus on your client needs and on creating that experience for them.

00:12:08

Andrea Marquez: And that next step might come a lot sooner than expected. For Spread The Love, Val started thinking about going online around two to three months after they started selling their products.

00:12:20

Val Fishbain: I believe I was already pregnant at the time, so I was telling Zach, “I'm tired. I don't know how else to do this, but maybe we could sell online.” So we started the process there, and it took a few months, six months for us to get in. Definitely, the beginning was tough. I had never sold online before, so for me it was, “Okay, what am I doing?” But I just kept going and this is something that I truly wanted to have for my business. I would rather sell online than sell at the farmer's market, because of the ease of just being at home, not on my feet when I was pregnant. And the idea of making money while its just kind of in the internet world, was a good motivation for me. Don't be afraid to put some money into it, especially in the beginning.

00:13:27

Andrea Marquez: If you're planning on taking that next step, money is something that you're definitely going to have to focus on. Viridiana says that underestimating the cost of transitioning online and not spending enough time working or revising profits and prices is a mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs make.

00:13:42

Viridiana Ponce: What happens is that a lot of times people end up needing more working capital. And then they need to go back and get a loan and then they're making decisions based out of urgency. And so if we spend a little bit more time, hopefully we can avoid some of that. And we can do a lot more of the work in the front end instead of while we're in the middle of that transition. Because all of my clients who have gone through a transition, they have all required that additional funding.

00:14:12

Andrea Marquez: So, make sure you spend enough time planning your numbers. Another mistake Viridiana noticed is a common one that every entrepreneur goes through. You probably guessed it, doing everything yourself.

00:14:23

Viridiana Ponce: And that's so overwhelming. Not only overwhelming, but I've seen that sometimes this means that it actually causes more expenses. Because there's either mistakes or we don't have the knowledge of let's say, design work. And then the packages end up getting printed out, and there is a mistake where it didn't comply with regulations.  

And so I would say that before we go through this transition, really identifying what experts and who we need to work with. Because if we were working with the designers or we're working with specific experts, that could end up saving you money and time. So, really consider what kind of support you need and then who's in your network that can help you out with that. And then budgeting for it, if it's someone that you do need to hire.

We don't have to do it alone. I think that's one of our superpowers as entrepreneurs, is that we learn and we do so much. But you don't have to, right? There's resources, whether you're paying for them or there's actually a lot of business support out there. And it's either low cost or free support that entrepreneurs can also take advantage of. So, definitely don't do it alone.

00:15:36

Andrea Marquez: And that's something that Val did as well. She hired someone to make that transition go a lot smoother.

00:15:42

Val Fishbain: It was tough to get the documentations right and the calling of the customer service and the back and forth. It was tough for me to do that while I had my full-time job, so we hired a consultant.

00:15:57

Andrea Marquez: And another tip that'll help make the move to e-commerce easier is don't forget to document everything.

00:16:03

Viridiana Ponce: Oftentimes, I see that people don't write out their recipes. And so, scaling that recipe is harder because we don't have things written down. Or else it also makes it challenging for quality control, if we don't have things documented. Or even the process of how to make your specific food products. So I would say if you are considering expanding your business, think about documenting the recipes and the processes for you to make your product. Because it's going to help you out. It's going to have an impact on your financials because you'll know how much exactly you're using of each ingredient.

00:16:40

Andrea Marquez: And speaking of recipes, a really important ingredient to your business's growth and success is your community.

00:16:46

Viridiana Ponce: So from the side of a business owner, I think really being connected with their community, that it helps people I think, have a sense of belonging. Whether it's like you're giving back or donating food, or participating in different events with different nonprofits that maybe they've been a part of. And I feel like that also really showcases who they are as a person. And it makes the community and it makes other people really lean in to them because they're giving back.  

So, I feel like it's this beautiful give and take relationship. And then I think from the point of view of a community, so important, the way that we spend our money. And I think that as consumers or as clients, that we can think about shopping local or going to our local farmer's market. And it could be also investing in these businesses as they're expanding.  

So, I always think about the way that we spend our money, it matters. And so when we are spending it on a small business, that's also such a lovely thing that we're also supporting economic development. And so I think that on both sides, as a consumer and as a small business owner, that community, it's everything for me. It's so important that we are giving and taking and forming this beautiful relationships as community members.

00:18:14

Andrea Marquez: And giving back through Spread The Love was something that Val has always wanted to do.

00:18:19

Val Fishbain: I have a background in social work, and to me, leaving that so that I could be full-time with Spread The Love after I believe, two or three years of starting Spread The Love, it was tough because I was leaving a lot of what I truly cared about. And going to Spread The Love, I said, “Okay, well this is a business, I am still serving people. And in the future, I can eventually serve more people in a bigger way.” You can tell from our name, it is Spread The Love. So there's so many meanings to that phrase. It's changed throughout the years, for me.  

In the beginning it was literally making something from my kitchen and giving it to my loved one, or giving it to a stranger. And when I see them eat the food that I made in my kitchen, my heart explodes. That was it. That was Spread The Love to me then, but now it's bigger than that. I feel like today, I definitely think about my kids, how I spread the love to them, and how they see spread the love spreading the love to others.  

So whether they want to start their own business or be a part of Spread The Love, I want them to keep in mind and keep it in their hearts that they have to spread the love forward too.

00:19:46

Andrea Marquez: So, Val took the same approach she did with her wedding favors. She decided to do something from the heart.

00:19:52

Val Fishbain: Back in 2018, we started volunteering for an organization here in Los Angeles. Pizza, they needed pizza servers to people that were experiencing homelessness and were transitioning. So, we served pizza. And then from there, we started a fundraiser to donate to PATH, People Assisting the Homeless. After that, the initiatives kept getting bigger and bigger, and we wanted to serve more people. And so, we partnered with another organization that was serving homelessness here, St. Joseph Center, to serve transitioning and homeless people. From there, it was super fulfilling to me, and I felt like I was a social worker again while being a business woman.

00:20:40

Andrea Marquez: And then Zach, her co-founder and husband, decided that he wanted to serve his own community through Spread The Love.

00:20:46

Val Fishbain: Zach grew up in Wisconsin and he went to the public schools. The public school system taught him to be this intelligent business man that he felt like he needed to give back to that community. So in 2020 during the pandemic, there was a lot of unrest. And we thought of, “Hey, why don't we give scholarships to students of Racine, Wisconsin?”, where he's from.

Our business was doing well at that time, but we didn't have that much money to give away. So we started with three scholars. And we gave them a thousand dollars each so that they can graduate high school and transition to their college. And that was the beginning of Spread The Love Forward Scholarship. It started small, but it had a huge impact in the beginning. And from there, every year, we increased it to five scholars. And now in 2024, we've awarded 23 scholars.

00:22:03

Andrea Marquez: Giving back doesn't have to break the bank. So if you're thinking of following Val's footsteps, start small.

00:22:09

Val Fishbain: Based on your business model or however much profit you're getting, I think definitely base it on that. We started small, and also, it's not all year long. We are supporting other organizations all year long. We're giving in-kind donations throughout the year, but the Spread The Love Forward, every June or July, that's when we do it. So, it's not overwhelming.There's literally nothing too small to give. Start volunteering. It could just be your time in the beginning. And from there, the idea will flourish. And it'll just keep pushing you to start that program for your business.

00:22:57

Andrea Marquez: And apart from it being a rewarding experience, giving back can be really beneficial for your business.

00:23:04

Val Fishbain: The more savvy consumers of today who are looking for businesses that provide clean products and do good for our society, these are our customers. And they respond so well when we send them the newsletter that, “Oh, this is our fifth year of providing scholarships to high school students. Here it is.” And as soon as they see that they respond to us. Whether it's on social or email, we hear from our customers about this. There's a lot of great feedback that come from this.

00:23:43

Andrea Marquez: We've served up a lot of information about transitioning from a farmer's market to e-commerce. I know it might feel like a lot to digest, so I'll leave you with what I thought was the most important piece of advice. Always go in with a plan.

00:23:58

Viridiana Ponce: I think that when people are starting businesses that they are really passionate about and they believe in, and they're combining that with planning and looking at their numbers and creating a plan, I've seen that they can be really successful. And we don't have to know every single one of the steps, and we don't have to do that all by ourselves.  

We want to ask for help. We can be successful. So whether you decide to start from your house or a farmer's market or start selling online, spend some time connecting the story back to you. Making sure that you're spending time on your numbers and then asking for help. And you can generate a lot of money by doing something that you love, if you're also paying attention to your numbers.

00:24:44

Andrea Marquez: Val and Viridiana dished out a ton of advice on how to take that next step in your business while staying connected to the community that got you there. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode.

And I'd love to know what you think, so send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com. Or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts. Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show, like this one from TF97. “Love how insightful each of the episodes are. Overall, great takeaways that every small business owner can apply. Highly recommend.” Thank you.

That's it for this episode of This Small Business brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Ever wondered how podcasting can help you grow your business? Just ask Hala Taha, the host of the Young and Profiting (YAP) podcast and the founder of YAP Media Network and YAP Media, who knows all the podcasting secrets that’ll help you get big. Hala aka the Podcast Princess shares her own entrepreneurial journey and reveals the secrets behind her rapid growth, including how she harnessed LinkedIn for visibility and used creative strategies to break through the podcasting noise. Learn how to start your podcast, different monetization options, and why you should be advertising your business on podcasts.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

(1:38) How Hala went from a corporate marketing role to founding a leading podcast network in just two years.

(3:20) Hala’s game-changing LinkedIn tactics that increased her podcast’s visibility and engagement.

(5:04) How Hala used her LinkedIn presence to grow on other platforms.

(6:40) How Hala leveraged her podcast as a lead generation tool and built a successful social media agency from it.

(8:48) Why podcasting can help you grow your business.

(10:20) The three key components for a successful podcast: being searchable, designing an eye-catching cover, and utilizing platforms like TikTok and YouTube.

(11:28) How to advertise your business on other podcasts.

Key lessons:

1 - Get Creative with Marketing: You don’t always need a big budget to grow your podcast. Hala started on Linkedin by DMing the audience on other similar profiles to grow. Then, she traded her LinkedIn audience for features and banners from podcast platforms.

2 - Using Podcasts as an Advertising Tool: If starting your own podcast feels like a lot, think about advertising on existing podcasts. It can be more cost-effective and can lead to high conversions. Find shows that vibe with your target audience and see if you can guest appear to boost your brand’s visibility.

3 - Networking Strategically Through Your Podcast: Use your podcast as a networking goldmine. Invite potential clients or influential figures in your industry as guests. Building these relationships might lead to future opportunities you hadn’t even imagined.

4 - Monetizing Creatively: There are so many ways to monetize a podcast beyond just sponsorships. Hala used her podcast as a lead generation tool and turned her guests into clients for her social media agency.

5 - Be Searchable: Hala offered a few tips to make sure you get the best out of your podcast. Use relevant keywords in your titles and descriptions so people can discover your content when they’re searching for topics you cover. And make sure that you work on your cover art.

6 - Building a Strong Foundation for Your Podcast: It’s going to take a while for your podcast to grow. So focus on being an amazing interviewer, preparing thoroughly, and consistently putting out high-quality content. Engage with your audience and provide value in every episode to build a loyal listener base that keeps coming back.

00:00:01

Hala Taha: So I come at it with a very podcast centric approach, audience focused approach, and I monetize all the different channels. And so basically it's the same thing. I figured it out for myself and then started to offer it to other people and that's how the YAP Media Podcast Network was born just two years ago and we're already the number one business and self-improvement podcast network.

00:00:25

Andrea Marquez: I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, and this is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. A lot of you have been asking if podcasting can help you grow your business, whether that's through creating your own podcast or by advertising on other shows and if you can earn a little extra revenue on the side by starting a podcast.  

The short answer is yes, and I'll be talking to you about what you should do to get started. And if you're not sure if you need to incorporate podcasting into your business, maybe you'll change your mind by the end of this episode.  

Today, I have a very special guest who is no stranger to the world of podcasting and entrepreneurship, Hala Taha, the host of the Young and Profiting Podcast, and the founder and CEO of YAP Media Podcast Network and YAP Media, an award-winning podcast production and social media agency.

00:01:16

Hala Taha: Anything I figured out for myself, I figured out how can I just turn this into something and do it for other people? And I think that's why they call me the podcast princess, because I feel like I figured out every nook and cranny of the industry where other podcasters only focus on creating content.

00:01:32

Andrea Marquez: Hala will be sharing all her secrets on how she managed to start a successful podcast, how to advertise on other podcasts, and how to monetize a podcast beyond just getting sponsorships. Before Hala was dubbed the podcast princess, she was working in marketing at Hewlett Packard. She always had big dreams about working on radio or TV.

00:01:54

Hala Taha: When I first was in college, I interned at a radio station for several years, and then I had a blog site for several years and I almost got a show on MTV and I almost became a host on SiriusXM, but none of those opportunities panned out and I felt like a failure that I didn't make it in radio. I didn't make it in satellite radio or TV, and I thought, okay, I just got to go back, be a normal person, forget my dreams of being an on air personality and let go of my dreams. And I went into corporate.

00:02:25

Andrea Marquez: And she was doing very well.

00:02:26

Hala Taha: I got promoted four times in four years. I was the face of the young employees at Hewlett Packard, but something was missing. I was missing my true calling, which is using my voice for good.

00:02:37

Andrea Marquez: At the time, Hala was volunteering for the Young Employee Network at Hewlett Packard. She started the chapter at her local site in New Jersey and was the president for two years. Then she was on the global board and decided to apply to be present there, but she didn't get the opportunity.

00:02:53

Hala Taha: And then I found myself thinking, am I going to just keep working for free in this volunteer organization in my corporate job, or is this an opportunity for me to do something on my own, to go back to what I love doing? So Hala decided to start her podcast, Young and Profiting, and I actually did it as a side hustle, and I literally thought that it was just going to be a hobby for the rest of my life, a way to release this passion that I had while still sustaining myself because I thought that there was no way I would make money on my podcast.

00:03:26

Andrea Marquez: Fast forward to now, and Hala is making five figures a month. We'll get to the monetization in a bit, but before you even think about making money off your podcast, you first need to cultivate an audience and to do that, Hala did something a little out of the ordinary. She turned to LinkedIn.

00:03:44

Hala Taha: I remember when I first posted on LinkedIn, people were like, why are you posting your podcast on LinkedIn? Nobody does that. You can't post your podcast on LinkedIn. And then it leveraged that to become one of the top podcasters because I didn't listen to everybody what they thought was appropriate for LinkedIn, and I was doing really creative things to stand out and stop the scroll. I was using really bright colors, neon pink, neon green, neon yellow. Nobody was doing that. It wasn't my favorite colors. I wanted to stand out. I was making comic book audiograms. Video podcasting wasn't a thing yet in 2018, and I was doing that to stand out.

00:04:19

Andrea Marquez: Hala also had another hack that she used to bring in people to her account. She'd look for profiles that were similar to her and she DMed their audience.

00:04:27

Hala Taha: And at the time, I didn't know this, but DMing is the highest viral action on LinkedIn, and so people are 85% more likely to see your content in their feed if they DM you back. And so all these people were DMing me back suddenly. They were seeing all my content all the time, and I just became a huge influencer on LinkedIn, and suddenly I was getting more opportunities in corporate.  

When my coworkers, when I first started posting on LinkedIn, were like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? What are you trying to do? Don't you think people are going to think that's weird? And it turned out to be to my benefit. So I always tell people, don't worry about what other people are going to think about you because first they're going to ask you why you're doing it, and then they're going to ask you how you did it.

00:05:07

Andrea Marquez: Things were going great for Hala. Her podcast continued to grow, but a year and a half later, things started to get stagnant.

00:05:15

Hala Taha: I was stuck at a certain amount of downloads and I was like, I don't know how to break through this. The other thing that was happening is that I felt like I wasn't a big enough podcaster on Apple and I was so focused on Apple Podcasts, but what I didn't realize is that everybody who was so big on Apple Podcasts started 4, 5, 6 years before I did, and they basically capitalized on starting early and now were the top podcasters and getting featured in ranking and the discoverability features by being the top podcasters. There was almost no way for me to sort of break into that.

00:05:51

Andrea Marquez: But then Hala realized that Apple Podcasts wasn't the only strategy she could leverage.

00:05:56

Hala Taha: And so I decided to reach out to every single podcast player, every single podcast company, and I traded my audience where I said, “Hey, I'll post you on LinkedIn in exchange for you featuring me on your website, in exchange for you writing an email blast about my podcast. I'll write a post about you on LinkedIn every month in exchange for you giving me a banner.” And I didn't spend any money. I was just being scrappy.

The same way that I figured out how to reach out to guests and book guests, I would figure out contact information for all these sites and podcasts related things and try to trade my audience. So that's what helped me break out and actually become a top podcaster. That's when I decided to quit my full-time job when I realized that my podcast is really taking off.  

At that time, I started my social agency, essentially the guests that would come on my show at the end of my show, they'd always ask me, how did you grow your LinkedIn? How did you grow your podcast? I started to take on social clients and take the same things that I did from my podcast and started doing it for other people. That grew superfast. And my podcast first started monetizing by being a lead generation tool where the guests that would come on my podcast ended up becoming my social and production clients.

00:07:13

Andrea Marquez: If you don't know what a lead generation tool is, it's a strategy or form of content that you could use to get clients or customers.

00:07:21

Hala Taha: So there's top funnel lead gens and there's mid-funnel lead gens. So top funnel lead gens are typically like free downloads, so like an e-book or a white paper, a quiz, something that people download and they put their name in their email, and now you have a way to reach out to them via email. Mid-funnel lead gen activities include things that have two-way communication, so maybe a live stream where you can answer questions or a webinar where you can have two-way communications or a discovery call where you are just like having a one-on-one call with someone. And basically it just helps you get more clients, close deals, get them warmer and more comfortable with your services.

00:08:02

Andrea Marquez: That was the first way Hala was able to monetize her podcast. She also figured out how to get sponsorships for her podcast and decided to help other podcasters do the same.

00:08:12

Hala Taha: So then I created a podcast network, and now I get sponsorships for podcasters like Jenna Kutcher of Gold Digger, Amy Porterfield, Online Marketing Made Easy, John Lee Dumas of Entrepreneurs on Fire. They're all in my network and I am responsible to get them sponsorships and I get 30% of all their sponsorships in my podcast network.

00:08:31

Andrea Marquez: Hala found creative solutions that helped her grow and then used all her knowledge to help other people do the same. I'll be giving you actionable takes on how you can replicate Hala's success, whether you're looking to start your own podcast or just want to advertise on a few shows. But before we get into that, let's dig into why podcasting is such a powerful tool that you need to incorporate into your business.

00:08:54

Hala Taha: The average listener is 18 to 54 years old. They're in their prime earning years where if you compare that to radio and TV, these people are 55 plus and podcast listeners are basically getting younger while radio and TV viewers are getting older. So now Gen Z is soaring in popularity with podcasts, so your target audience is most likely listening to podcasts. The other thing is that people really trust their hosts, right? So they get a really great connection because the host is basically in their ear. They feel like they know their voice, they know who they are. There's so much credibility, there's so much engagement. Podcasts drive a lot of purchase action, higher purchase action than radio and TV, for example.

00:09:37

Andrea Marquez: And creating your own podcast can be a great networking tool.

00:09:41

Hala Taha: So if you design a podcast where your target leads are actually the guests that you interview, what you're doing is you're able to talk to somebody who you'd otherwise not have an opportunity to speak with usually. You build trust, you build credibility, you're able to sort of soft sell. And for me, what happens is I don't even talk about my network or my social agency. What happens is that maybe a month later they email me, “Hey Hala, remember I came on your show? Can we talk about LinkedIn services?” So I'm able to get leads just by meeting people.

00:10:12

Andrea Marquez: And if you're interviewing people who are more experienced than you, you're also learning along the way. So we've talked about the power of podcasting to grow your business. Here's what you should know to make sure you get the most of it. One, make sure you're searchable.

00:10:27

Hala Taha: So the main way that people are finding podcasts in the audio apps at least, is that they're typing in stuff in search. They're typing in what they want to learn about. If they want to learn about podcast monetization, they're typing that in, and then whatever pops up, pops up. A lot of times people are just so worried about being catchy and it's not about being catchy. Be searchable. So make sure you're infusing your title, your description, your episode titles, all with keywords.

00:10:56

Andrea Marquez: Two, make sure you have a good podcast cover.

00:10:59

Hala Taha: Your podcast cover matters. So putting your face on your podcast cover, making it super clear, professional looking matters a lot.

00:11:07

Andrea Marquez: Three, leverage other platforms.

00:11:10

Hala Taha: The fastest growing podcasters right now are coming from TikTok or YouTube. These are video platforms that have an endless amount of content being fed to users. So much discoverability happening on those platforms and influx of new people all the time.

00:11:26

Andrea Marquez: But if starting a podcast is a little too much right now, you can utilize the power of podcasting by advertising on them.

00:11:33

Hala Taha: And they're not that expensive. And so that's why you see a lot of brands who really just focus on podcasting because it's just really high conversions, especially when you find a host who has the audience that you exactly need and want. You can also guest on those podcasts. You can advertise on those podcasts and say like, “Hey, I'll buy a quarter of ads and as value add, I want to be a guest on your show for free or pay to go on the show.”

00:11:58

Andrea Marquez: But keep in mind that podcasting is hard, and just like building a business, it'll take time before you see results.

00:12:05

Hala Taha: I made content and didn't sell anything for two years, and all I did is just be of service and try to put out great content and make sure I was a great interviewer and a great researcher and really prepared and tried hard for my podcast even when I wasn't making a dollar on it.  

It's going to take a couple of years before you're big enough to monetize and get sponsors if you want the sponsorship route. So you have to be passionate about what you're talking about, want to learn, want to meet other people and network with them or have some other way of generating income from those relationships with the people that come on your podcast.

00:12:41

Andrea Marquez: If you've decided to embark on the podcasting journey, welcome. We're happy to have you here. Here are some final words of advice from Hala.

00:12:49

Hala Taha: If you feel passionate about starting a podcast, do it. Be consistent. Do it. Do it because you love it. You'll be magnetic because people will feel that enthusiasm, and if you have the passion for it, you're going to figure out how to grow it, how to monetize it. It's not too saturated, it's not too late, and you should definitely do it.

00:13:07

Andrea Marquez: That was Hala Taha, the host of the Young and Profiting podcast, and the founder and CEO of YAP Media Podcast Network and YAP Media. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon. com/ podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So send us an email at thisissmallbusiness. amazon. com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts.

Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show. Here's one that caught my eye recently from Dave DeRave. “I only learned from hearing people's real stories and struggles with running a small business. So this podcast was a great find. Lots of different backgrounds and product lines. It's interesting to hear how everyone's Amazon journey varies and how some problems seem universal. Great for us aspiring entrepreneurs to business owners and everyone in between.”

Thanks a lot, Dave DeRave, and I'm the same way. I think it's so important to go beyond the textbook and learn from people who've been through it. Plus it helps knowing you're not alone. That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Starting a business on a tight budget might sound tough, but it can be more beneficial than you might think. Just ask Alice Kim, founder of Elizabeth Mott, who turned a small budget into a flourishing business. Alice explains how she reduced costs by building a strong network, coming up with creative solutions, and the importance of buying enough time to build the momentum you need to get your business noticed. You’ll also hear from Caroline Castrillon, founder of the Corporate Escape Artist, who’ll share budget-friendly ways to understand your target audience and do market research.Learn how you can make your business thrive with limited funds and turn your small budget into a big success!

In this episode you’ll hear:

(1:08) How Alice Kim launched Elizabeth Mott on a shoestring budget.

(3:57) How Alice tapped into her network to cut costs and find creative solutions.

(5:05) How to tackle research and development without breaking the bank.

(6:47) Five budget-friendly tips for effective market research.

(8:48) Why having a co-founder or a solid support system can make all the difference.

(9:25) The benefits of being resourceful and scrappy.

(12:10) Why focusing on the journey is just as important as reaching your end goal.

(14:19) Why prioritizing your tasks can help you navigate the startup hustle.

(15:38) How being scrappy can give you the time and space to get your business off the ground.

Key Takeaways:

1 - Start Small and Lean: Sometimes starting with a smaller budget can actually work to your advantage. It forces you to be resourceful and manage your funds wisely, which can lead to a more stable and sustainable growth. As Alice Kim showed, being scrappy and smart with your money helps you stay in the game longer and allows for gradual, but solid growth. It’s not about having everything perfect from the start; it’s about making steady progress with what you have.

2 - Build a Strong Network. By leveraging connections for storage and logistics, and negotiating better deals, Alice saved money and resources. So, don’t underestimate the power of your network—they can help you in many ways. By making and nurturing relationships, you can find cost-effective solutions for storage, logistics, and even manufacturing.

3 - Test Before You Invest: Caroline Castrillon shared several cost-effective ways to understand your market: 1. Get Direct Feedback by engaging with potential customers at events like farmers markets or conferences. 2. Try Pre-Sales to test interest in your product without having to invest in inventory upfront. 3. Use feedback from friends and family as a starting point and conduct surveys. 4. Utilize Social Media to get a sense of what people are talking about and to ask your followers about their preferences. 5. Analyze what similar businesses are doing to find gaps and opportunities and to understand how they're marketing their products.

4 - Have a Support System. Whether it’s a co-founder or a strong network of mentors and supporters, having a solid support system can make a big difference. Both Caroline and Alice agree that having people who believe in you and your vision is crucial for overcoming the ups and downs of entrepreneurship.

5 - Embrace the Journey. Entrepreneurship is about more than just reaching your end goals. It’s also about enjoying the process and learning from every step along the way. It’s going to be a tough and long journey, so don’t get too focused on the destination; instead, appreciate the journey and the growth that comes with it.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: You've got your idea and you're ready to start your business but there's one thing holding you back, money. It might seem like a hurdle, but sometimes starting with a smaller budget than you anticipated can actually be beneficial.

00:00:15

Caroline Castrillon: In terms of increasing your chances of success, it's not really about the money because you can blow through a big budget very quickly. It's more about how you manage it, and so I always encourage people to start with a smaller budget and go lean because then you're going in with less risk and then as you make money, you could just put it back into the business and it's a slower growth process, but it's a much more stable way to go.

00:00:45

Andrea Marquez: That's Caroline Castrillon, a career coach and founder of the Corporate Escape Artist, and today she'll be talking to us about starting a business with a smaller budget. Hi. I am your host, Andrea Marquez, and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon.  

Today, we'll get into how to start a business with a small budget. One business owner who went down the scrappy route and came out on top is Alice Kim, the founder of Elizabeth Mott, a Korean beauty brand. Before she bootstrapped her business along with her husband, Vira, Alice was in New York. Both Alice and Vira, who at the time was her boyfriend, had the entrepreneurial drive, but they didn't act on it until the 2008 recession.

00:01:36

Alice Kim: I think sometimes crisis or world events will kick you into that. We were in New York during the 2008 recession, so we're like kick the can down the road in the corporation, so it really ignited for us to start our business. Then we're like, “ Okay. It's now or never.” We wanted to own our own brand, do it the way we wanted to do it.

00:01:58

Andrea Marquez: At the time, Alice was working on her first business, Elizabeth Mott.

00:02:02

Alice Kim: 2010, this is before social media, before K- beauty, Korean beauty was a thing. So I brought back beauty products from Korea that I thought were very high performing, that were not really available at the time in the US. So we did both quit our jobs, not at the same time, but relatively close. I went first because I made less money, so maybe within a six- month span and we went all in.

00:02:27

Andrea Marquez: But Alice and her husband went into this with a plan. They needed a fallback just in case things didn't work out.

00:02:34

Alice Kim: So we gave us a year. We've started the first six months in New York where we live in Soho, but the burn rate was really fast. You know in New York, things are extremely expensive. So we're like, “ Okay. We need to conserve the money.”

00:02:48

Andrea Marquez: So Alice decided to move to Hawaii where her husband Vira is from. They stayed with her in- laws and continued working on their business.

00:02:57

Alice Kim: And we really just saved and saved. We just did what we could to save money. We were young. I was much younger than two. We had the energy and the stamina to just keep going.

00:03:08

Andrea Marquez: Even though moving to Hawaii elevated some other financial burden, it brought on another challenge.

00:03:14

Alice Kim: If we wanted to live and operate the business in Hawaii, we couldn't ship here because it's just too expensive and shipping out just didn't make any sense. So in the beginning, make those contacts, try to cash in those referrals. Like anybody that you know. We borrowed space in the mainland, in la, I knew some people who had warehouses where we could store our stuff, and I think that really helped the business because you have inventory you need to pay for rent as cheap as you can get it, so being able to find storage and logistics. Now we use a third party logistics, but that took a lot of our, I think efforts and time in the beginning trying to set that up.

00:03:52

Andrea Marquez: That's one way to be scrappy with your business. Build a network that can help you out. We always hear that relationships and connections are everything in business, so it's great to see an example of what that would look like when you're starting out and developing connections also helped Alice in manufacturing.

00:04:10

Alice Kim: You could try things in small batches, try to negotiate. If somebody's like, “It's a $50,000 investment to do this.” Nothing's in stone. Try to find someone that'll give it to you for half or half of half or just say, “ I'm good for this.” We're all people. You just need to find someone who will understand your vision and just give you a little bit of a break in the beginning. And I've definitely had so many of those people that are so memorable and really help the business get to where it is today. I think a lot of people talk about mentors, as like these people who are very experienced and give you all this advice and wisdom. I see mentors also as those people who gave you a chance in the beginning.

00:04:50

Andrea Marquez: Building those contexts is so important and I want to take a few steps back and talk about research and development. How could you do that on a small budget?

00:05:00

Alice Kim: I think that a lot of sampling, a lot of trying out your competitors. I mean really the old- fashioned way. Now there's a lot of AI tools too. You can get data based off of bestsellers, things like that. Those are very important and very helpful. I think it's great that those exist and so figuring out what are people buying and just getting inside the heads of consumers and then just being really curious.

00:05:28

Andrea Marquez: Figuring out your target audience is essential. Caroline Castrillon, young career coach and founder of the Corporate Escape Artist says that not understanding your target audience is one of the biggest mistakes she thinks entrepreneurs make when they're starting their first business.

00:05:42

Caroline Castrillon: It's tempting when you're starting a business to want to serve everyone all the time, but it's actually a better practice to narrow down your audience. So the more narrow your audience is, the easier it's going to be to find those people wherever they are so that you can market to them and then ultimately sell your product. So that's a big common fear in the beginning for entrepreneurs. When I was starting a coaching business, just general career coaching, instead of getting more specific in terms of corporate professionals that want to make the leap to entrepreneurship, but it's easier to find those people. It's also easier to do market research before you launch and really get to know your audience.

00:06:28

Andrea Marquez: Market research doesn't need to break the bank. Here are a few budget friendlier, but effective ways you can understand your customer and test your products. One, get in front of your customers.

00:06:40

Caroline Castrillon: It gives you an opportunity to A, sell, and B, get real- time feedback on your product and what they like, what they don't like, what they'd like to see in the future, those type of things.

00:06:50

Andrea Marquez: You can do that by going to farmer's markets or conferences. Two, consider doing pre- sales.

00:06:57

Caroline Castrillon: So pre- selling is a great way to test because you don't need to have any inventory or even a product developed. You can put up a launch page, you can promote it, market it, get feedback on it, and then just tell people it's coming in the future and gauge what kind of interest you're going to get. If there's not a lot of interest, then you know that you might need to move on to a different idea or get feedback to see what these people do want to hear about. And then there's always surveys. You can survey people easily.

00:07:30

Andrea Marquez: Three, leverage your friends and family.

00:07:33

Caroline Castrillon: That's like a built- in source of feedback. Even though they may or may not be your target audience depending on the product or service, it's still a good way to get feedback

00:07:42

Andrea Marquez: Four, use social media.

00:07:44

Caroline Castrillon: You can use it from a listening standpoint just to get a sense about what people are talking about out there, what they'd like to see and they don't like, and then asking your followers what they like and don't like.

00:07:56

Andrea Marquez: And five, look at what your competitors are doing, which is something Alice also talked about.

00:08:02

Caroline Castrillon: See if there's similar products or services out there, people that are going to be targeting the people that you're going to be targeting so that you get a sense of who else is out there, how are they marketing themselves, what are their price points? You might even be able to get some ideas about how you'd like to approach your business.

00:08:21

Andrea Marquez: Another thing that helped Alice and her husband is going at it together.

00:08:25

Alice Kim: World husband and wife team where there's two of us. So it really might be a little easier than if you were a solopreneur, you had a partner that's not your spouse or whatnot.

00:08:34

Andrea Marquez: But if you're going at it alone, make sure you have a good support system.

00:08:39

Caroline Castrillon: You really have to have people around you that believe in you more than you believe in yourself sometimes because there are a lot of ups and downs. It's not a straight line. There's good days and bad days, but the passion is what keeps you going, but also the people around you that believe in you.

00:08:53

Andrea Marquez: So as long as you have passion and support system, having a smaller budget doesn't necessarily mean you can't continue to grow.

00:09:01

Alice Kim: Saving the money, bootstrapping, being scrappy, just allowed us to buy more time to stay in the game because in the beginning you don't have those big wins, you don't have these huge pos and orders and all these reviews or whatnot. So I think being able to buy the time, so you make those contacts or you meet those buyers or whatnot, that was important for us and so we decided to just keep our head down and play as long as we could. And for us that was not using money and just being able to bear it through until we had some traction. And you feel that momentum.

I think most entrepreneurs are like, “ It was a viral this or I had a press mention or an influencer picked it up, a celebrity or something.” You can feel when it has that momentum, you can feel the demand. You're a small team or yourself will know all the orders you have to fill or figuring out the next steps in your supply chain. So those are exciting problems to solve because then you're like, “This thing is moving.” It may not be taking fire, but you're like, “Okay. This is something.”

00:10:05

Andrea Marquez: And one of these moments where Alice felt the momentum was 10 years ago, around a week before her wedding day.

00:10:13

Alice Kim: So we have had a mascara, it's called, It's So Big. I remember we did a IPSY, I don't know if you're familiar with that beauty subscription box, but you don't have that marketing resource. So for hundreds of thousands of people to look at your product at the same time is very, very powerful and to convert as well for customers. So I remember we did this sampling campaign, I think it was like 150, 000 customers, and then all of a sudden we saw 2 orders, 5 orders, 10 orders, and then we're like, “Okay. We can manage this.” It was like maybe 100 at the end of the day, something like that.

And then I think we were getting married that week, and I know we were for sure because I remember I was in my dress just packing the last 10 orders. I was like, “I'm just going to tape up the bottom so that…" We didn't have staff, I had family members. I'm like, “The auntie can come in later and fill these, but I'm just going to do these.” And I remember both of us, he was in his tux, I was in my dress and we were just taping up boxes, but that was so fun. I mean it was just definitely one of those things you don't forget and that's the momentum where you're like, “Okay. I'm fine in my wedding dress, taping up boxes and filling these orders.”

00:11:22

Andrea Marquez: I love that story and it's so clear to me that Alice is focused on the journey and the process, which Caroline says is important to avoid burning out.

00:11:31

Caroline Castrillon: If you focus too much on the end goal, you're not going to enjoy the process as they say, “ It's about the journey, not the end destination,” because once you get to that end goal, you have to have a new goal. And then burnout. It's really easy to burnout as an entrepreneur, especially starting out because you are so passionate, you're going to want to work 24/ 7, but you're going to have to temper that with wellness activities just to make sure that you don't burn out because if you do, then it's going to be difficult to continue to grow the business and to think clearly in ways that will help you get to that next level.

00:12:12

Andrea Marquez: Alice, knowing what you know now, do you think there's anything you would've done differently?

00:12:18

Alice Kim: We were not as aggressive on the advertisements. I think especially as a D2C company, that could have grown us a little faster. We were so focused on the product and getting the product right. I think still that is the most important, but I think a little bit more on ads, more information on ad agencies and just that relationship, influencer strategies, things like that to get the message out. We were not as prepared or strategic in those ways, so I would've invested the dollars and the time.

I think a lot of times people say it's not just money, especially if you're a small, small, so two of you or you're a solopreneur. I think that the time aspect is just as important if not more, because it's like how much of your day do you spend on this? If you have families and you have to take care of stuff, we were doing this 10 hours a day, two of us, so that's 20 hours. So that's a combined force that we were able to do, but time is your biggest resource and I would've split up my time a little bit more, so it wasn't only focused on the product side.

00:13:19

Andrea Marquez: And prioritizing is something that Caroline says is really important when you're just starting out, especially if you have a limited budget.

00:13:29

Caroline Castrillon: Obviously you're going to have limited resources, so you're going to have to wear a lot of different hats and you're going to have to be really good at prioritizing because you can't do everything all at once. The thing I like to highlight for people is you got to remember of the non- sexy line items.  

People when they think of business expenses, they think of marketing and advertising and agencies and logos and branding, all that pretty design stuff. But you got to think about health insurance, if you aren't getting that through some other means. Taxes, it's not just what you make, but it's what you have left over. So you have to budget that in.  

And if you're going to incorporate it's like an LLC or something like that, you might have some incorporation fees, maybe some legal costs, website expense. So putting up a website, chances are you're going to need one. It's important to remember those other line items and try to keep your costs low.

00:14:33

Andrea Marquez: We covered so much today, but if there's one thing you should be taking away from this episode, it's this.

00:14:39

Alice Kim: Buying enough time is really the best, maybe advice that I could give because you have to figure things out. What you think when you start is your company is probably not even 50% true. So it's a constant editing process of what you thought you were going to be doing or what you thought people would love or what you thought could put you into retirement is not going to put you into retirement. So I think that having the drive is the first thing.  

Grit, tenacity, all those things that you got to keep going. Mentally just keep going. It's so much harder than when I worked in my day job. If you don't like being uncomfortable, don't do it. It's so much of your own blood, sweat and tears. But I think the reward is this, yes, financial freedom in the end, but it's that personal freedom. For me, it's being able to express myself creatively through the products and giving people what I think is different and unique and innovative from somewhere else, like Korea, for example, or Hawaii.

00:15:34

Andrea Marquez: Money is a topic a lot of people shy away from, but Caroline and Alice dove into how you can see success with a smaller budget. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.  

Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com, or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts.  

Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show like this one from Marie Tree, “ Love it. Has provided great insight on how to overcome problems when starting, and great inspiration.This is a must listen podcast for those with entrepreneurial aspirations and those with small businesses wanting to grow and learn.” Thank you. I'm glad you're feeling inspired.

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to You by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Want to learn how to turn your cultural heritage into a successful business idea? Just ask Conchita Pleasant, the founder and CEO of Nefertiti's Secrets, who looked at Ancient Egyptian remedies to create a hair care line. Conchita opens up about the struggles of battling breast cancer and how it led her to start her business. Learn how to conduct effective market research through direct feedback, the importance of pivoting, and how to turn obstacles into opportunities and empower yourself and others along the way.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

(01:22) How Conchita’s breast cancer diagnosis became a turning point in her entrepreneurial journey.

(05:10) How Conchita utilized feedback to improve her formula.

(07:15) How Conchita started to mass produce her product.

(09:04) How Conchita’s brand aims to uplift customers and the significance of history to her and her customers.

(11:14) How you can replicate Conchita’s success by drawing inspiration from your past.

Key Takeaways:

1 - Embrace Your Roots. It's so important to know where you come from. Conchita talked a lot about how her cultural background shaped her business. If you connect deeply with your own history and culture, it can really guide you on where you're headed and help you share something truly unique with the world.

2 - Listen and Learn. One thing Conchita did was get a ton of feedback on her hair care products from different people. By really listening and making changes based on what they said, she improved her product. So, whatever you’re working on, make sure you get lots of input and be ready to tweak things.

3 - Stay Flexible and Adapt. Be ready to pivot and make changes based on feedback and market trends. Being open to change can help you conquer your fears and reach new heights.

4 - Empower Your Customers. Conchita’s brand is all about making people feel royal and worthy. Think about how your business or project can uplift and empower others. It's not just about selling a product, but about making your customers feel amazing.

5 - Build a Support Network. Conchita relied on mentors, chemists, and hairstylists to develop her product. Surround yourself with supportive people who can offer advice and feedback. A strong network can make a huge difference in your success.

00:00:01

Conchita Pleasant: Culture is so important. It's just important to know where you came from and to connect with who you are to know where you're going. I would say to dig deep, find that thing that resonates with you, and share it with the world.

00:00:17

Andrea Marquez: I am your host, Andrea Marquez, and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. It's August, which means it's Black Business Month.  

Black Business Month started quite recently in 2004, an engineer slash entrepreneur named Frederick E. Jordan struggled a lot to get funding and financial backing for his company, so he teamed up with John William Templeton, the president and executive director of a scholarly publishing company, and together they started a yearly celebration to address issues that Black entrepreneurs face and to bring attention to all the successful Black-owned businesses who beat the odds.  

Today we'll be talking to Conchita Pleasant, the CEO and founder of Nefertiti's Secrets, a business that sells natural hair care products inspired by the Ancient Egyptian Queen Nefertiti. We'll discuss the inspiration behind her brand, the challenges she faced along the way, and how she managed to turn to ancient remedies to develop her product. Conchita's entrepreneurial journey starts with a breast cancer diagnosis in 2011.

00:01:33

Conchita Pleasant: That was pretty devastating because I had a young daughter and it was just a really sad diagnosis because you have a child and that's something so serious, and so I had to go through that journey of trying to save my life. They told me that the chemo, so I decided to go ahead and go through with that, which to be honest with you, I didn't want to do it, but I knew I had to.

00:01:55

Andrea Marquez: Thank you for sharing that. I feel like a lot of powerful stories start with a cancer journey. My mom has cancer and it isn't an easy journey at all. She started chemotherapy recently and we had to shave her hair off and seeing her go through that is just... I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

00:02:17

Conchita Pleasant: I wasn't as brave as your mom to shave it all off. So I waited and that was the most traumatic thing that ever happened to me. So it just came up and as I was shampooing one day and it was just all just bald back there, and so I went through that phase of depression because this... Sorry, I get a little choked up when I talk about it because it's this sensitive, but I went through a little bit of depression because I was not only fighting for my life, it was an aggressive cancer and I was just so used to having all my hair and I lost 18 inches of it, and so I was attached to it, to be honest with you, and I had to go through this point where I'm just like, okay, I got to find a solution.

00:02:59

Andrea Marquez: You don't have to apologize at all. Everybody's cancer journey is, regardless of what they look like, they're going to be hard, and something that can seem trivial as hair in our daily lives turns into something so significant and symbolic. When you're going through cancer, I don't think people usually think about this unless they're going through a similar journey. Your hair is almost like this part of your identity that you rarely think about until they tell you you might have to shave it off.

00:03:30

Conchita Pleasant: Exactly, exactly. That is exactly what happened, and I was thinking to myself, well, it's not going to go away, but of course, life happens and you all of a sudden don't have hair and you have to live through it. And I was wearing wigs and I was really going through it because the chemo makes you depressed as well.

00:03:49

Andrea Marquez: For four months after Conchita started chemo, the doctors told her that her hair would grow back in two months, but when the time passed, nothing happened. So Conchita decided to take matters into her own hands.

00:04:02

Conchita Pleasant: I drew from one of my favorite Ancient Egyptian queens, Nefertiti. When I was younger, I had to write a bio on her and it just empowered me. It just inspired me to see how she was such a beautiful and powerful queen, and I felt like it did something for my self-esteem. It stuck with me, so I said, “Let me go back and check in some natural remedies from the ancient Egyptian times.” Bought books and everything, and I started putting together a product and using aloe, moringa, which they found in King Tut's tomb. I mean, I really dug and I found some good information and I put those ingredients together and started using that product on my bald head. It was surreal to have something that you put together and I said, “Oh, I need to share this with the world.”

00:04:55

Andrea Marquez: Conchita used to work in the hair industry, not with formulating products. That was new territory for her, but she knew a lot of hairstylists, so she created samples of her product and sent them out to get some feedback.

00:05:08

Conchita Pleasant: And I gave it to different hairstylists from all ethnicities, and I waited for their feedback because I wanted a product that can actually work for all ethnicities. I didn't want to leave anybody out. Then started getting feedback, and I was told that at first, it was like maybe seven out of 10, I said, “No, I have to get this perfect.”

00:05:26

Andrea Marquez: So she went back to the drawing board, started working with another chemist to perfect her formula, then sent it back out to get another round of feedback.

00:05:34

Conchita Pleasant: And those samples that I was giving out, those people were saying, “Can we have more? Can we have more?” And so all 10 of them loved the product, so that was just a great indication that it was time to go to the next level.

00:05:47

Andrea Marquez: And how did Conchita's product jump from a seven to a 10? She asked questions like, why wouldn't you buy this product? And listened to what her customers wanted.

00:05:58

Conchita Pleasant: When they told me what it was, well, it didn't make the hair as soft as I would want to or it was a little heavy, and so I just started tweaking it with the chemists and we maybe took out some things, added some more things. I actually use a special formula, a special blend that's not like heavy oils because I don't want the products to weigh the hair down, and so we just work with that.

00:06:22

Andrea Marquez: By the way, she was handling all this while she was battling cancer and undergoing treatment.

00:06:28

Conchita Pleasant: I would literally go to the chemist the next day after chemo, and that's how passionate I am about this.

00:06:34

Andrea Marquez: That's so inspiring to hear because I know seeing it from my mom, it's so exhausting.

00:06:39

Conchita Pleasant: It's exhausting.

00:06:41

Andrea Marquez: Good days and bad days is what we call them, right? And in the world of business, it seems like you just have to power through a lot. Right?

00:06:50

Conchita Pleasant: Exactly.

00:06:52

Andrea Marquez: After Conchita perfected her formula and got hairstylists with different backgrounds and hair textures to give her product their stamp of approval, she decided to start mass-producing her product.

00:07:02

Conchita Pleasant: The chemist I was working with, he saw what I was going through. He saw my passion and he actually helped me. He's like, “ You don't have to start off with a large amount. We'll start you off with a couple of hundred pieces.”

00:07:13

Andrea Marquez: So Conchita goes to a distributor for professional hairstylists.

00:07:18

Conchita Pleasant: And he said to me, “ Well, we already heard about your product.” And I'm like, “How is that?” He's like, “Those stylists that you went to my salespeople have been talking to them and they said,”  Please get Conchita's product because it works. “And I'm like, “All right, wow.” So he ordered that day, he gave me a nice order and I was like, “ Wow, I don't have product for this order.” And so that was the beginning of me actually mass producing, and actually, it was perfect because it's hard to have a door. Sometimes, you have the idea and then you mass produce and who do you sell to?

You have to try to push a product that doesn't have a track record, but at the end of the day, I was just so blessed that he said, “Hey, give me like 24 cases,” and they were case packs of I would tell him 24. I had no idea what I was doing. To this day, hairstylists really loved this product, and that's really what got the brand going because once you have been endorsed by hairstylists, it really, I mean, it helps the brand take off. Since then, we've been creating new products and also pivoting and changing when I need to.

00:08:28

Andrea Marquez: That's such an important thing to be able to pivot and change when needed, especially since the beauty industry is so competitive and if you don't adapt, you'll probably get left behind. So considering that, and of course everything that you were already going through, did you have any fears and doubts about your business while you were working on it?

00:08:50

Conchita Pleasant: I think the fear just went away, honestly. Once I saw how great this product was and I found a need, and I met the need because if they felt like this product was so great, then that meant to me that there was an opening there. I really didn't worry about the competition because I feel like I had something unique to bring to the world, and that was my assignment.  

So that's the thing. You just have to find the need and not so much worry about the competition. And I had a couple of great mentors along the way that gave me advice, things that I needed to change, to fix with my packaging because it's good to do assessments and ask questions and do surveys to find out what you need to do to pivot and change when you need to.

00:09:36

Andrea Marquez: Conchita's story is empowering, which isn't surprising since empowering customers is at the core of Nefertiti's Secrets.

00:09:45

Conchita Pleasant: The basis of this brand is based on royalty. So when I was growing up, I was teased so much. I thought it was the ugliest thing, walking really. I had them little freckles and I was different, and back then freckles weren't really that embraced like they are now, and so between that and the name, Conchita, they were teasing me left and right. It did affect my self-esteem, and when I did that bio on Nefertiti that was out the door, I just became so empowered. So this is what I want for my customer. I formulate products to help empower them to feel great about themselves. I want them to remember their worth, so when they see that logo, I want them to feel worthy of having the best of everything in life.

00:10:38

Andrea Marquez: I love that Conchita looked to the past to find a solution for a problem a lot of people face today and if her story inspired you to do something similar. Here's some advice from Conchita.

00:10:48

Conchita Pleasant: Culture is so important. It's just important to know where you came from and to connect with who you are to know where you're going. I would say to dig deep, find that thing that resonates with you, and share it with the world. Fear is going to come in. I can't say that I didn't have fear. I faced a lot of fear in this journey. Fear of failure at times. Fear on every level, but my advice is to be fluid, be open to change when you need to and break fear by moving forward because once you break fear, you can break into your next level.

00:11:29

Andrea Marquez: I'm feeling empowered after talking to Conchita. It seems like the essence of her brand is helping other people, whether that's through her wonderful story or from getting results from her products. That was Conchita Pleasant, the CEO of Nefertiti's Secret. That's it for today's episode.  

Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So send us an email at thisismallbusinessatamazon. com or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or now a comment on Spotify.

Here's one that NDL9366402 left recently on Apple Podcasts. I listen to this a lot. I love the host's voice. Awe, thank you and that it's not too complicated, inspires me to start my own business. I'm so happy that we've inspired you. That's what we're here to do, and I'd love to hear about your business when you do start it.  

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and store production by JAR Audio.

Ready to kickstart your entrepreneurial journey or looking for a refresher on some essential tips? Join us as we dive into key insights from Season 4 that will help you start, build, and grow your business. To kick off Season 5, we're revisiting some of the most valuable advice from experts and successful small business owners like Amy Porterfield, Kat Norton, Jenna Kutcher, and more. Whether it's mastering your mindset, pinpointing your target audience, networking like a pro, or cracking the social media code, we've got you covered.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to:

(02:05) Cultivate a Success-Oriented Mindset

(03:02) Network Effectively for Business Growth

(04:24) Define and Reach Your Target Audience

(06:13) Build a Comprehensive Marketing Strategy

(07:44) Leverage the Power of Email Lists

(09:55) Implement Effective Social Media Strategies

(13:36) Stay Persistent and Keep Moving Forward

Key takeaways:

1 - Keeping a positive mindset is so important for anyone diving into entrepreneurship. Remember, you’re definitely not alone. There are so many communities and resources out there that can offer support and inspiration. Surround yourself with people who lift you up—it can make your entrepreneurial journey a lot smoother and a lot more enjoyable.

2 - Networking isn’t just about handing out business cards—it’s about building genuine relationships. Think about what value you can bring to others and keep your network alive by giving back, making referrals, and supporting fellow entrepreneurs.

3 - Take some time to really understand who your ideal audience is. How can you communicate with them in a way that resonates? And don’t be afraid to stand out – Sharing your story and being authentic helps you connect with your audience on a personal level. Also, make use of email lists—they can be one of the most effective ways to engage with your audience and drive sales.

4 - Instead of trying to do everything at once, focus on what works best for you by analyzing what your competitors are doing. Choose a few strategies and stick with them. Consistency is key to building and maintaining your audience, so don’t spread yourself too thin.

5 - Each social media platform has its own vibe, so tailor your content to fit each one’s strengths. Keep an eye on trends, but don’t let them completely dictate your brand’s identity. Managing your social media effectively means staying true to your brand while adapting to each platform’s unique features.6 - Entrepreneurship can be a rollercoaster, with plenty of ups and downs. Stay committed to your vision, learn from your experiences, and don’t be afraid to push through the tough times.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: It's not easy, but you do it anyway. You do it because you believe in it so much that the thought of not trying at all feels a lot worse than trying and failing. Every day you question if you made the right choice, if taking the leap was the right decision. But then you wake up to a new day and a new challenge that you must overcome. You realize there's no other option. You have to overcome whatever stands in your way to make this successful. And if it isn't, the next idea will be or the one after that, because you're an entrepreneur and this is what you do. This is Small Business.

Hi, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Welcome to our fifth season. In the past two years we've conducted over 100 interviews with entrepreneurs and industry experts. We've won awards, reached significant milestones and it feels like we're just getting started. To kick off this season I want to share some key lessons from previous seasons, or as I like to call it, lessons I wish they taught us in school.

I've learned a lot as the host of This is Small Business, so choosing a handful of lessons from a whole season filled with knowledge wasn't easy, but I ended up picking out the lessons that stood out to me the most. They're what I believed to be essential for aspiring entrepreneurs and small business owners to know. And you could always listen to the episode if you want to dig deeper into some of these takeaways.  

Whether you're new to This is Small Business or returning after a break, here's a rundown of key insights you should know that'll help you start, build and grow a successful business. We'll be covering a bunch of topics today from getting into the entrepreneurial mindset, to figuring out who your audience is, to networking. Let's get started. Mindset is everything for an entrepreneur. One common piece of advice from our guests is to remember you're not alone. There are many communities of like-minded people and resources available to support you. Amy Porterfield shared how she shifted her mindset during the early days of building her business in the episode, Seven Steps to Accelerate Your Small Business Growth.

00:02:20

Amy Porterfield: I got it all through podcasts and blogs and getting into mastermind groups with other people so that I could surround myself with people that will inspire me and also support me. So, if you are just a lone wolf and you just want to build your business online and don't get support or help from anyone, it's going to be a rough road. We need that support in order to make sure that we keep moving forward when it gets tough.

00:02:42

Andrea Marquez: Maybe that's why you listen to the This is Small Business podcast, to hear stories of people, just like you, who are on a similar journey. Another way to find a community is through networking, which can sometimes feel like a chore and isn't as easy as just showing up at a conference, walking up to people or sending cold emails or DMs. It can be hard, but it's essential for growth. Robbie Samuels discusses this in his episode, How Networking Can Help You Build and Grow Your Business.

00:03:13

Robbie Samuels: The reframe is to think about what you bring. It's not that we're looking for clients, it's that we have something of value that would help people, but if we're not willing to talk about our services, if we're shy about it, then there are people who need us who don't know. They don't even know this is a skill that's out there that can help them.

00:03:32

Andrea Marquez: As an ex-wallflower myself, Robbie gave us so many helpful tips on how to make networking easier. We all have something to offer, but even if you don't believe you do yet, building a network is still beneficial. Just make sure you maintain your network to get the most out of it.

00:03:49

Robbie Samuels: If you pay in every month an insurance policy and you don't really want to need your insurance policy, right? The hope is that you'll never use it, but it's there if you need it. And that's the same thing with our network. You want to give back regularly to your community whether that's one-on-one conversations, supporting and sharing, making referrals and making introductions.

00:04:11

Andrea Marquez: When building a business, it's crucial to define your target audience. Who wants what you have to offer? Amy Porterfield gave us a little insight on how you can figure that out.

00:04:21

Amy Porterfield: If you can be your avatar just a few years ago, you'll really understand how to put together your marketing message because you lived their lives, you understand them. The people who need you will find you even if you put a stake in the ground. If your message resonates with them but doesn't fit perfectly, that's okay. If they like what you're saying and they find value, they will find you. So, don't be scared to put that stake in the ground. I promise you it's going to help you get known and seen in a very noisy online world.

00:04:49

Andrea Marquez: And speaking of the noisy online world, make sure to put yourself out there and share your own story. It's something that Indya Wright said is essential to building an audience in her episode, Why Public Relations Matter.

00:05:04

Indya Wright: Everything you do consider the story you want to tell, and that's going to reflect in the content you share online, where your product or service is available, the people you serve. That all ties to the story of your brand, right? The reality is, it really truly is about the story, and more often than not people are more interested in the people behind the brand than the brand itself. It's less about the product or service, more about the person and the mission, and I feel like that's across the board. Any industry, any brand, any goal, who are you serving? Why are you serving them? I feel like that's the hook that makes things newsworthy.

00:05:42

Andrea Marquez: By identifying your target audience, you'll gain a clear understanding of how to communicate with them and recognize who else is engaging with them. Then all that's left to do is reach them. A lot easier said than done, but Liz Downing gave us some advice on where to start in, How To Build Your Marketing Strategy.

00:06:00

Liz Downing: There are lots of steps to take, including what your competitors are doing, identifying what channels are successful for your competitors. That's probably the easiest hack, is look at who you're going to compete with and how they're doing it, and then figure out how you can do it better.

00:06:15

Andrea Marquez: This knowledge helps you choose the right channels and prevents you from spreading yourself too thin with strategies that might not work, and I know entrepreneurs love to do it all and experiment with different strategies, but as Amy points out, that might end up hurting your business. Here's Amy talking about some of the biggest mistakes she thinks business owners make.

00:06:36

Amy Porterfield: One of them is trying to do too many things, too many offers, too many messages, where people are very confused what they need to come to you for in order to get the results they're looking for. I think another thing is that a lot of business owners, because we're trying to do so much and wear so many hats, we lack consistency. It's very normal and human to not be consistent with these things. The people that are winning are consistent with what they're doing and they do very little, but they do it really well.

00:07:05

Andrea Marquez: Consistency is key. It takes time for your audience to find you, but once they do, you want to make sure they keep coming back for more. But standing out online can be difficult. There's a ton of competition. So, last season we talked about a very powerful tool that allows you to speak directly to your customer, email lists. Jenna Kutcher shared some insights on email lists in her episode, The Growth Tool That Can Help You Increase Revenue: Email Lists.

00:07:33

Jenna Kutcher: Social media is meant to be the handshake. Email is meant to be where you sell. When people go into their inboxes, they are much more poised for purchase than when they're on social media. People are on social media to be distracted, to be entertained, to be educated. They're not there thinking, “I'm going to pull up my wallet.”  When you think about an email list and serving it, it is a lot easier than you're making it out to be because instead of screaming to the masses like you are on social media, you are reaching out to the people who have already exchanged something valuable to them to get something valuable from you. These are the people that have literally raised their hand and said, “I want more of what you've got.” And so, you are speaking to the people who are already curious and invested in what you've created, and so it is an entirely different conversation than the one that you're trying to have or the one that you're trying to use to sell that is likely falling flat.

00:08:25

Andrea Marquez: This was a powerful lesson for me because I hadn't considered how emails cultivate an engaged audience. As a customer myself, I sometimes feel bombarded with sales pitches in my inbox, which can be off-putting if it's constant or coming off as salesy, but Jenna gave us some great tips on how to promote your products without making customers feel like they're being sold to.

00:08:44

Jenna Kutcher: What does the consumer truly want? Maybe they want to feel more peaceful, maybe they want to feel beautiful, maybe they want to feel calm, and so when you think of it in this way, it totally takes out this desire to be like, here are the five product features that people might not even know why they should care about those features, and it helps connect them to their true desired end results while giving them value again for free and then kind of being this breadcrumb on the path to purchase of like, “ Oh, wow, they actually have a solution for this. I might not be ready to buy it now, but when I get that email two months from now and I'm in a different position as a purchaser, I'm ready to pull the trigger.”

00:09:20

Andrea Marquez: It's not just about selling. Providing valuable resources that align with your identity, product, values and messaging and maintaining consistency can make a significant impact. Another essential tool is social media. So many customers, myself included, use it to look up brands and products before deciding on what to buy.  

So, being on social media is important for businesses, but it's a lot of work. Managing all the different platforms and keeping up with the ever-changing trends can be time-consuming and demanding. Don't worry though, because we've cracked the social media code in the episode, How To Use Social Media To Reach Your Audience.  

In that episode, Sahra Nguyen, the founder of Nguyen Coffee Supply, talked about her approach to posting on different platforms.

00:10:06

Sahra Nguyen: Each platform is very unique in what works on one platform may or may not work on the other platform. I think there are instances where we can kind of use a piece of content as the root and then iterate, cut it up and repurpose for different platforms. Sometimes that works and sometimes it won't, and sometimes you'll just need a complete different content strategy altogether. We spent a lot of time just comparing content strategy and performance and data on both Instagram and TikTok, and what we often found was a piece of content that did well on TikTok would not do well on Instagram and vice versa, and then we would dissect the reasons why. Well, really short form, just like six seconds do really well on TikTok, but that may not be as engaging on Instagram because Instagram, I think, there's a little bit more space in bandwidth for maybe 15 seconds. I know it sounds wild, but 15 seconds, it makes a big difference. 15 to 30 seconds, up to 60 seconds for that more extended education of storytelling.

00:11:02

Andrea Marquez: And even though it might be tempting to follow trends, I know all the big brands do it. If you miss out on a trend, it won't hinder your growth. Trends can actually sometimes work against you.

00:11:13

Sahra Nguyen: And at times, it could be decentering in our brand identity, brand voice, brand mission. Now, we're at a place in a marketing strategy and juncture where we're not focused on trends. If something comes up and we feel really inspired and we feel like it's aligned with another pillar, we can engage, but we're no longer actively following, actively tracking and quickly creating content to hop onto that trend.

00:11:36

Andrea Marquez: But even if you choose not to follow trends, it's still a lot of work, especially if you're on multiple platforms. You're already trying to run a business, so adding more tasks can seem daunting. But all you really need to plan and create a month's worth of content can be three days. Kat Norton, also known as Miss Excel, explained how she organizes her content and how to use social media to reach your audience.

00:12:02

Kat Norton: So, for me, in terms of managing my energy, I'll have days where it's just my creative flow state day, so I'm doing all different activities that are tapping into that right side of the brain. So, I'll be going through and taking a walk in nature, meditating and staying out of my more analytical mind.  That's where you got your giant to-do list, your iced coffee, you're knocking things out, and I stay more in that flowy seat, and then I find that the ideas more easily just flow right through. I mark them down, and then on another day it's more my performance day, where I'm getting all done up. You don't have to get all dressed up every day. You can just really go through and take that one day, make your setup. And then editing days look totally different too.  So, really separating it out by the different energy types helps you capitalize in each of those areas to be at max capacity versus being 50% all flowy and then trying to get on the camera and then... It really helps to separate it out that way for myself.

00:13:01

Andrea Marquez: We covered a lot and yet there's still so much more lessons to come. If being an entrepreneur is your passion, there will always be challenging days. Building a business and sustaining growth can be tough, but there will also be amazing days, days when you can't imagine doing anything else. We've touched on mindset, networking and identifying and reaching your audience. Just a few things that make up the much larger world of entrepreneurship. To wrap up, I want to leave you with one of my favorite lessons: keep going.

00:13:33

Kat Norton: Go for it. I started with, I think, two boxes of 50 paddles each. Then, obviously, it grew really quickly from there, but you can always do that and have an attempt at it.

00:13:43

Indya Wright: Do it. I say, do it. You can't go wrong. You can't go wrong.

00:13:47

Robbie Samuels: Just going to work and getting a paycheck is so much easier, right? It's just so much easier. Did I want to try something hard and hope that it went well? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do, and that's where I ended.

00:13:59

Liz Downing: Get comfortable with no. The more you hear, no, the more you can also hear, yes.

00:14:04

Brian L. Shields: There is a lot of opportunity and there's never a substitute for just trying.

00:14:10

Jenna Kutcher: While we might use the word small in front of your business, no matter where you're at on the journey, I just want to remind you that what you're doing is actually really big and brave and bold, and I don't want you to ever forget that.

00:14:26

Andrea Marquez: I'm thrilled about everything we have lined up for this season. Be sure to subscribe to stay updated with new episodes releasing every Tuesday on your favorite podcast platform, and if you enjoy the show, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or now a comment on Spotify. Your feedback helps us continue delivering valuable small business content. If you want to know more about any of the topics we talked about today, make sure to give Season Four a listen.  

And as always, if you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Are you trying to figure out if a rebrand is worth the high price tag? Just ask actors turned entrepreneurs David McGranaghan & Julian Miller, co-founders of McMiller, a company that creates games designed to make you laugh, who went over-budget to rebrand their business. “Strong design [...] turns a four-star review into a five-star review, and I think that's definitely what we've learned, and it's money well spent [...] I would encourage people to put money into design," says David.

In the season finale of This is Small Business, you’ll hear how Julian and David’s love story sparked the idea to start their business, the challenges and benefits of being married to your business partner, and how design can elevate your products. They’ll also talk about the importance of taking it slow when you’re first stepping into entrepreneurship.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:23) How David and Julian met and started Mcmiller

(06:11) Why David and Julian wanted to get into entrepreneurship despite being professional actors

(09:55) The challenges and benefits of starting a business with your romantic partner

(12:28) How you could use reviews to improve your products(15:12) How design can elevate your products

(22:36) How success can hurt your business if you’re not prepared for it

(23:54) How to add sustainability into your business – Andrea mentions two This is Small Business episodes about sustainability. If you want to learn more, check out this season's bonus episode “How your business can have an impact” or an episode from season 4 called “How to Grow a Sustainable Business.”

(25:58) Julian and David give us a look into their future goals and their upcoming game

(26:55) Julian and David emphasize the importance of taking things slow when you’re starting your business – it’ll help you avoid mistakes and give you time to work on the best version of your product

Key takeaways:

1 - Starting a new venture may seem daunting, but drawing from past experiences can be invaluable. David and Julian leveraged skills acquired from their acting careers like being adaptable and figuring things out on their own when they were building McMiller.

2 - Balancing a business with your life partner could be challenging. David and Julian say that you need to draw clear boundaries between your work life and your personal life so your business doesn’t take over your relationship.

3 - Despite the challenges, there are loads of benefits to working with your partner. David and Julian point out that they’re able to be more honest with each other and don’t have many arguments about money since the money is all going to one account.

4 - Reviews are a strong resource for your business. David and Julian use positive reviews as a reminder of their "why" to keep going when times get tough but they also use the negative reviews as feedback so they can improve their products and better understand what their customers want.

5 - Design isn't just about aesthetics; it's a cornerstone of success. A well-thought-out design can significantly impact user experience, brand perception, and ultimately, business growth.

6 - At whatever stage you are in your business journey (but especially if you’re just starting out) David and Julian emphasize the importance of taking things slow. When you do that, you’ll be able to spot mistakes earlier in your journey and create a better and more solid foundation for your business that can help you achieve long term success.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: We've reached the last episode of season four. What a journey. I've talked to so many inspiring and diverse small business owners and experts this season. It really got me excited about everything entrepreneurship. From networking to buying a business, we've covered a lot. Aside from all the valuable lessons learned, I loved hearing everyone's stories, what inspired them to get started, how they navigated difficult situations, why they kept going, and how they were able to turn an idea into reality.

So today, we'll be talking to some really cool guests about their own business journey. Their names might be a little familiar. Oh, and this episode is twice as special. It's not only the season finale, but it's also an episode dedicated to Pride Month, so I hope you enjoy it.

I'm Andrea Marquez, and this is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. In this special episode, we'll be digging into a business that started out of love, McMiLLER. We'll talk about how the founders grew their business, the importance of good design, and how to walk the tightrope that can be working with your life partner.

00:01:23

David McGranaghan: We are McMiLLER, and we invent and mass-produce party games, board games, card games, and our games are designed to make you laugh. We really try and pack each box full of belly laughs, and something we're really proud of, and something we really strive towards, is making sure each game is multi-generational. We want granny to be laughing just as much as the kids. Today, we've sold over a million units, and we've had over 350 million social media views across TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. So yes, we've started from very small to quite a big company now.

00:02:05

Andrea Marquez: That's David McGranaghan. He co-founded McMiLLER with his partner, Julian Miller. You might've heard of them.

00:02:13

Julian Miller: We both trained in London and both lived there for 15 years and worked as actors, Dave mainly in theater. He was in Jersey Boys, playing one of the Jersey boys in the West End, and he was with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Great show. And then, I did more television and film. I was in Spy with Melissa McCarthy, which was a hoot to film. And then we met each other–

00:02:39

David McGranaghan: On a blind date.

00:02:40

Julian Miller: ... on a blind date. Yeah.

00:02:40

David McGranaghan: In London, yeah.

00:02:42

Julian Miller: I know. It was so cute. We were young and innocent, and we fell in love with creating games, and it slowly spun into a business.

00:02:53

Andrea Marquez: So McMiLLER was born out of their love for each other. I mean, the name says it all.

00:02:59

David McGranaghan: My surname is McGranaghan, which is a terrible name for a company. There's so many As and Ns in it. My keyboard has worn away the A and N button. Then you've got Julian Miller. We were just a bit like, “Oh, McMiller?” We went with it for a while, and we met our branding team, were like, “You sound like you sell timber.” We were like, “Deal with it. We're not changing our names.” They're like, “Okay. It just doesn't really sound like a game company, but…” We were like, “Deal with it. It's done now. We're not changing our names.” Yeah, it's really just both our surnames thrown together.

00:03:29

Andrea Marquez: I love that you stood your ground and didn't change your name. I definitely didn't associate it with timber. We'll get into branding and design in a minute, because that's super important, and you do it so well, but first, I'd love to know what it was like meeting each other. Julian, you mentioned in our earlier conversation that you were looking to meet someone?

00:03:52

Julian Miller: I'd never really been in a long-term relationship, and I was like, “I'm turning 30. I need to start making some moves here.” And yeah, it was perfect timing.

00:04:01

David McGranaghan: Yeah, and we both had no money, so we couldn't go out for dinner. That was back in the days where they would still be happy hours, so you could get a drink for a pound in London. For six quid, I think we had a merry old time, and that was it. It was definitely sparks. I was really impressed at how creative Julian was. He was doing a lot of his own short films. They were completely off-the-wall, unapologetic, so out there, and I was so blown away by that. And i think that's where we linked up.

00:04:30

Andrea Marquez: Then the idea to start McMiller came soon after.

00:04:36

David McGranaghan: We would go to each other's families at Christmas and we'd always play a board game. And families coming together, big groups of people, there's alcohol involved, there's children running everywhere, so I would say that the games we were playing always felt a bit lacking. They were too complicated, they couldn't keep everyone's attention span, they weren't funny, and we both always felt that it was such a shame to get all these people together for that one time a year and to have a substandard product.

00:05:07

Andrea Marquez: David and Julian decided to take matters into their own hands and started to create their own games. They developed some fun challenges that entertained everyone, and it was just something they did on the side until...

00:05:21

David McGranaghan: They started to become so popular that folks were like, “Hey, can we get a copy of that? Because I've got this other party coming up and I'd love to take it.” So all of a sudden, we're starting to write instructions, we're starting to put things in a box–

00:05:33

Julian Miller: For free.

00:05:33

David McGranaghan: Yeah, for free, and we were like, “Hang on, this is taking a lot of time. We don't have a lot of money right now. We should start selling these products,” and I think that's how we organically fell into going, “I think we have a business here. I think we can actually sell these boxes.” Filled with laughter is how we were pitching it. That was basically a very organic way that McMiller was born.

00:05:55

Andrea Marquez: So they identified a gap in and created a solution to address it. It was perfect timing, because they were both in need of a side hustle.

00:06:03

David McGranaghan: We were both actors, and one deciding thing for me was I got a really fancy job in the West End. It was a really nice play, I got a really nice part, and I looked at my paycheck and I went, “Oh, and I'm one of the lucky ones. This is a classy job, and this is what I'm getting.”

00:06:22

Andrea Marquez: And acting, as fun as it is, isn't always that stable of a job.

00:06:26

David McGranaghan: So much is in everyone else's hands. You are jumping through hoops for agents, managers, cast, and directors. We both were like, “We want something that is ours and that we are in control of.” I think we were subconsciously seeking some kind of–

00:06:41

Julian Miller: Something, yeah, that could also scratch the itch of still being creative. Because sometimes it's really hard when you're acting and you're like, “Is this going to be sustainable for the rest of my life? I hope so, but what else can I do and do I want to do that still fulfills that urge to be creative?” And i think everything came together where we're like, “Oh, okay. This can fulfill all those things for us, and also, hopefully, can give us a sustainable business.”

00:07:11

Andrea Marquez: Plus, like me, they both come from a family of entrepreneurs. When one person in your family is a business owner, the drive to want to create something you own is definitely higher.

00:07:22

David McGranaghan: My mum used to run a pub in a nightclub in this very small fishing town in Scotland, tourist little town, and Julian's dad used to run an accountancy firm back in Holland.

00:07:34

Julian Miller: My grandma was an entrepreneur in the '50s, '60s. She was the first shop owner in that part of the Netherlands where I'm from.

00:07:42

David McGranaghan: Julian's grandpa was a stay-at-home dad, which was quite a big thing back then. It wasn't that common. When you also grow up with family that are running a business, you go, “Well, if they can do it, I can do it.” That might have been wrong. They might have been like, “No, you can't do it.” But I think growing up in that environment too gives you a slight entrepreneurial kind of– (cross talk)

00:08:03

Julian Miller: Passed down, yeah. Gives you a bit of a leg up, so we've been very fortunate that we have that support around us.

00:08:09

David McGranaghan: Yeah, and i think that all came together in some kind of melting pot along with the opportunity of us accidentally coming up with games that were quite unique, I think, at the time, for sure. It felt like doors opened and we just walked through them. I think that's the right way to put it.

00:08:24

Julian Miller: Still a lot of hard work, though.

00:08:26

David McGranaghan: Yeah, there was some locks in the doors, but we kicked them down.

00:08:28

Andrea Marquez: Oh, gosh. It's definitely a lot of work, and I can tell from all the conversations I've had on the This is Small Business podcast, and from seeing how hard my family of entrepreneurs work, growing up with two entrepreneurial parents, I saw them as workaholics. I remember thinking as a kid, “Why would I want that life where I'm even working on weekends and I'm on call when I'm on vacation?” And then ironically, here I am getting inspired and motivated by other entrepreneurs, and now I'm like, “Should I be doing this?”

00:09:08

Julian Miller: Yeah, we sometimes think about like, “Do we want children? How would that fit into our life?” It's really difficult to fit that into your life when you run a business together as well. So, yeah, there's some trade-offs there, for sure.

00:09:22

Andrea Marquez: So tell me more about that. What is it like working with your partner?

00:09:28

Julian Miller: Challenging.

00:09:31

David McGranaghan: You're always trying to find the balance between your work and your private life between the two of you. It's good to have some rules, and they might be not the hardest of rules, but they do help for us. For example, what we try and do is not talk about work after work, because it's really easy for the workday to bleed into your private life, of course.  

So we draw the line there, and then mainly when we can't help ourselves and do talk about work after work, it's soft stuff. It's fun stuff. It's like, “Oh, what can we do in the future, and what products could we potentially develop?” But we try and steer away from all of that and we do that by, for example, just exposing ourselves to other things. We go to cinema, we go to concerts, we go out for dinner with friends.  

So as much as we then can experience other things, we have other things to talk about that are not the business, because I think that's the hard thing because everything then can become about the business. So those things help, and just be kind to each other. And also, remember during the day when you're working together that you're also still married, and that you can be nice.

00:10:43

Andrea Marquez: But it's not all challenges. David says that there's also benefits to having your life partner be your business partner.

00:10:49

David McGranaghan: You're going to be honest with each other in a way that when you're with a business partner, you sometimes have to sugarcoat stuff rightly or wrongly with each other. You're just like, I don't like that. That's not going to work. Or I think you can be a lot more open. And of course because we're married, everything's going into the same account. So not one argument is about money,

00:11:10

Julian Miller: Never, no.

00:11:10

David McGranaghan: ... or responsibility or anyone not pulling their weight, which I know can obviously be a big bone of contention with other companies. So I agree that it can be all-consuming, but I do think the plus side is that you do eradicate a lot of the noise and the nonsense that can definitely get in the way of working with someone towards a goal.

00:11:33

Andrea Marquez: I never really thought about that, that the money is all going to one account, so it's easier to avoid arguments there. But setting boundaries is important because entrepreneurship can sometimes seep into your daily lives and you don't want it to consume your relationship. And when things get tough, as they do in every small business owner's journey, David and Julian often look at all the positive reviews their games get to keep going.

00:11:56

David McGranaghan: Sometimes we get stuff where it's like we've had a really hard year as a family, some stuff has happened. This is the first time we've laughed together as a family. And even now I'm feeling a bit like, “Oh,” to know that you've kind of worked so hard on something and given someone that is a really rewarding gift too. So it's not all lovely and cheesy. We are of course running a business, but at the same time, to know that the service that you're providing is that is very heartwarming too.

00:12:21

Julian Miller: Yeah, And having our nieces and nephews play our games is always amazing.

00:12:26

David McGranaghan: And they're so young that they have no idea that it's our games, which is also great. So when we use it to test on them, they're like, “This is terrible,” and you're like, “Oh, God, it's really terrible,” because they can't sugarcoat it, their children. But they're so honest. But when they do really enjoy it, you're like, “Oh, that's cool.”

00:12:44

Andrea Marquez: But they don't just pay attention to the positive reviews. Julian says that negative reviews are just as important.

00:12:51

Julian Miller: Sometimes, the only feedback that we get from our customers is reviews, and sometimes people leaving comments on social media pages. So these reviews are vital because it's great feedback and we learn more about our products, and now we can improve them.

00:13:07

Andrea Marquez: Reviews are an essential part of your business. We dig into more reasons why they're important In an episode called How to Build Your Marketing Strategy. It's episode 55 of This is Small Business. We also talk about how to get started with your marketing strategy in that episode, so make sure you give it a listen. We've been talking about how Julian and David started McMiller, and how they navigate being married while running a business together. Now, let's get into how they produce their games.

00:13:37

Julian Miller: So a lot of the time, we make the first prototypes ourselves. So it doesn't cost us a lot of money. We can then make changes really quickly, we can print out some new stuff. We would then look at, okay, what is the price of this? How can we get it manufactured in a way that it's still economical for us? And then we start getting samples from factories, not necessarily the final production sample, but close to, that we then test out, and then obviously we get quotes, and we decide on which factories we're going to go with.  

And a lot of the time we work with two or three factories for the same product, because one does the box and the card elements, the other one does some of the components. And then finally, we get a production sample. But when we get the production sample, we are already at the point that we're going to place an order.

00:14:24

Andrea Marquez: Wow. And how do you come up with the design?

00:14:26

Julian Miller: Well, David is more on the design part of everything, and we have learned so much about design and how important it's, but you're really pushing that in a direction that is really good for our company.

00:14:38

David McGranaghan: We start, like a lot of people, with no money and a lot of time. So, time-rich, cash-poor. And I sat on YouTube and I taught myself Adobe Illustrator, and I learned the absolute basics of how to throw stuff together, how to edit stuff because I couldn't afford graphic designers to do all the small tweaks, or I need it for this, buy this Facebook, but then this, buy this for Instagram. And then all those small announcements, I was like, I need to learn this myself because I can't afford. So then we started out, no idea, no training. So I would hire a logo designer to do the logo and then an illustrator to do the illustrator and then a graphic designer to put it all together.

00:15:17

Andrea Marquez: And when they managed to make a little more money, they decided to rebrand McMiller.

00:15:22

David McGranaghan: Someone came in and did our whole company brand in, and they were more expensive than we wanted to pay. Every time we looked at their stuff, we were like, imagine if that was us. That would change everything. That would change the game for us, literally

00:15:35

Andrea Marquez: They decided that this rebrand was worth the expensive price tag. So even though it was beyond their budget, they found a way to pull it off by splitting the cost over 10 years.

00:15:47

David McGranaghan: And it changed everything because they were so good at branding.

00:15:49

Julian Miller: And also they took us on a journey. They really taught us, in the process, about branding and about graphic design.

00:15:56

David McGranaghan: Yeah. What they did is they asked us a bunch of questions. And again, we were talking about we really want to make people laugh, we really want to do this. And they were like, “You sell laughter. That's what you sell.” That's where we start.  

So, you sell laughter, you sell giggles, you sell tee-hee- hees, you sell hardy-har-hars in our box. That's where we start. And from there it was a feeling, and that's how the fonts got picked, that's how the colors got picked. We want it to feel like Willy Wonka, but games. We want it to be an ice cream shop, like this is fun, but for us, it's called kidult.

So you want adults to love it, but also kids, which is a really hard thing to do. It can go very junior very quickly, and people like you are a bit like, “Oh, that's something I would buy a niece or nephew. That's not for me and my mates.” But then if we go to adult, mum isn't going to buy it for the kids. So it's a really fine line that we learn. We're like, “Oh, it's the dance between the two.” As always with business, it's a balancing act.

00:16:53

Andrea Marquez: Working with a branding agency also made them realize how much thought actually goes into branding, especially since people can instinctively buy products based on the design.

00:17:04

Julian Miller: And it was such a great learning curve for us, which really transformed our company.

00:17:09

David McGranaghan: Yeah, and that changed it for us. And I think like you're saying, and like Julian's saying you buy someone a game or a toy as a gift, it's a reflection of your taste. You want to make sure you are giving them something that makes you feel cool, feel on brand, feel trendy. And that's what we learned from the rebranding.  

And ever since then, we're like, “Oh, okay, we should hire people who handle every part of the game. The text, the font, the illustrations, and it's more about the feeling you get with a game.” And I think that's really where we've turned a corner. It's really just giving you more a feeling and all these other pieces come together to go, “Oh, this feels slightly nostalgic but very futuristic.” Yeah, so that's where the design comes, because like every business, there's a lot of competition out there, so you've got to stand out. And I think that is where we're trying to become a design-led company, so that we're just a little bit cooler than everybody else.

00:18:03

Andrea Marquez: That's a lot of thought process behind it. But I really respect and admire that because you're right, of course the product has to be good, but design gets people in the door first.

00:18:15

David McGranaghan: I completely agree with that. I think design is tough, because like everything, if you want good design, these designers cost good money because they're in demand. And when you're starting out, unless you're very lucky, you do not have the money or the experience to do that, and we've kind of organically stumbled across this.  

And now we're like the extra money that you pay for that design takes that cardboard box and all the elements inside it and makes it feel expensive. It really is mind- blowing what that can do with two products that have got the exact same materials inside them. Strong design turns a four star review into a five star review. And I think that's definitely what we've learned, and it's money well spent, I think. I would encourage people to put money into design.

00:18:59

Andrea Marquez: Plus, good design could lead you to a lot of success. That's what happened with McMiLLER.

00:19:06

David McGranaghan: We've got a game coming out in July, it's called the Catnip Game, and our designer, gym went very '90s, very internet, very cats. They've all got steam coming out their ears. It's bonkers. And that's exactly what the game feels like.  

We're just starting mass production now, but we've already got an order, and it is from the design that the main buyer was like, “Whoa, this is bonkers.” And we were like, it's amazing. And off the back of the design, I do feel confident that customers are going to come in and be like, “ I have never seen a game like this. This is the kind of game I want to give my friends.” So I think that's confirmed our beliefs that investing the little money that you have in design is worth it.

00:19:44

Andrea Marquez: I am sold. Design is a lot more important than you think. So if you feel like your brand or product is in need of a refresh, consider investing in a good designer or rebranding your business, it might help you grow. David mentioned that he had to teach himself design, but that wasn't the only thing that they had to learn when they were starting with McMiLLER.

00:20:10

David McGranaghan: I would say that given our performing background, they didn't teach as much about profit and loss sheets at musical theater school, or shipping, manufacturing, being a manager, all those little things that we had no idea what we were doing. And as it turns out, that's actually 90% of the core of running a business. If you don't have that slick, you don't have a business.

00:20:35

Julian Miller: It's funny because lots of people are like, “Oh my god, you run a board game company. You must be playing games all day. It must be so much fun.” I'm like, yeah, 5% of the time, maybe, if we're lucky.” We are actually developing games. The rest of it is running a business, which we had no idea about how to do that.

00:20:53

Andrea Marquez: So they had to learn a lot from scratch. But being actors kind of helped them navigate that.

00:20:59

David McGranaghan: You're kind of thrown in the spot a lot. “Hey, can you do this accent? Can you play this kind of character.” I guess I'll have to figure out. And you become quite resourceful, and I think that skill, thankfully, was transferable. We were like, I'll get on YouTube. I'll figure it out. I'll read a book about it. And then also again, we're lucky because we have entrepreneurs in our family not running a business like this, but I think the foundations of every business is quite similar, and we could get some guidance in there.

00:21:27

Andrea Marquez: But even though they had a lot of support and access to resources to help them build and grow their business, David and Julian learned the hard way that even success can be an issue.

00:21:39

Julian Miller: We had a TikTok video they went super viral. Within a week, we had 40 million views on it. So we started selling out within a couple of hours, and then we had to shut everything down because we just couldn't fulfill those orders and we were just being over-ordered. So it took us about four or five months to just fulfill all those orders and just make sure that we were back in a place where we felt comfortable to re-enter the market.

00:22:09

David McGranaghan: And I think also, as amazing as that was, we got kind of cocky after that success. You kind of started to think, “ We've got it.” And we ordered a lot more games, and of course it was too much and, we had to warehouse them for too long, because all of a sudden we weren't going viral anymore. And I think that was another challenge for us is to be a bit like, “Okay, don't get too carried away too.” Yet again, like everything, it's about balance, and just be like, “Why don't we just go down the middle route,” I think, and I think–

00:22:37

Julian Miller: Let's make it easy on ourselves, as easy as possible. Let's not pile the pressure on by having to sell all these games.

00:22:47

Andrea Marquez: Julian and David mentioned that they're selling laughter, and they do it so well, but they wanted to do more with their business.

00:22:57

Julian Miller: So, obviously, we are a small company, and we want to be sustainable, but you can't do everything right in the moment. So we're like, “We have to focus our energy on one particular part of the business that we can improve on.”  

So we see, in the board game world, that a lot of plastic is still being used. Obviously it looks great, it's cheap, you can make really fancy stuff with plastic, but that is not sustainable. Plastic doesn't necessarily need to be a component of games. Can we be creative enough to find other ways of using different materials instead of plastic but still have a wow factor? And we're like, “Yes, we can do that.”

Use natural materials such as rubber, cardboard, wood, wool felt, and in order to get something that still has a wow factor, for example, we create a game called Fire in the Hole, and it comes with this beautiful pirate pop-up ship. When you open it up, people are like, “Oh my god, that is amazing.” And it's made out of really sturdy cardboard and felt balls, and it's done really well, and it's been a challenge, but it's also pushed our creativity in a really nice way.

00:24:13

Andrea Marquez: From all the conversations I've had with entrepreneurs, I'm noticing that many small business owners are trying to move towards making their products more sustainable. We've talked about sustainability on This is Small Business.  

So, if you want to learn more about sustainability and how to implement it in your business, you should check out this season's bonus episode, How Your Business Can Have An Impact, or an episode we made last season called How to Grow a Sustainable Business. Julian and David mentioned a new game that they're working on called Cat Mitt, so I obviously had to ask about it.

00:24:47

Julian Miller: So yeah, this summer we are launching our new game, the Cat Mitt game. It comes with a rubber ball and these cat mitts and it's a very frantic game in which you have to knock treats out of this treat ball and feed your little kitties. So the idea for our company is that every year we launch a new game, just one or two games. We don't want to overwhelm ourselves with too many products, and we want every product to be special and well thought out. But the ultimate goal, I think for us, is to become a household name. We want you hear our name, McMiLLER, to stand for laughter, multi-generational fun, sustainability. So we're aiming high, and we want to be a worldwide brand, and move into more stores and more countries.

00:25:29

Andrea Marquez: Those are ambitious goals, and I also really love that they're trying to take it slow. That's something Julian and David say is essential when you're trying to start a business.

00:25:40

Julian Miller: Slow down, take your time, don't rush, because it's really easy to get carried away by it, because excited, and you want to make changes, you want to build something up, and sometimes it's good to just reflect and maybe take a little bit of time before you jump into it.

00:25:55

David McGranaghan: Yeah. I think entrepreneurs in general are very ambitious. We have egos. Otherwise you wouldn't sit there and go, " I think I can do that better," or " I can pull it off." I think, like Julian's saying, if you can take your time and get it right the first time, then you're free to do everything else after that. I think that is from experience of us getting everything wrong the first time, and spending lots of money and time–

00:26:22

Julian Miller: Unpicking.

00:26:22

David McGranaghan: ... trying to unpick and go back to basics and fix it. And it's so hard when you're impatient and ambitious. I think every entrepreneur shares that. No matter what industry they're trying to go into, they want it all in six months' time. I would say it's long-term thinking, not short-term. And that's something–Yeah.

00:26:44

Julian Miller: And sometimes we still struggle with , you know .

00:26:45

David McGranaghan: Yeah, we do. You need a bit of both. You need the hare and the tortoise. Sometimes you can't just be one of them. You need that drive to get there and then learn from your mistakes. But the tortoise wins the race, Julian.

00:26:57

Julian Miller: It does.

00:26:57

David McGranaghan: Slow and steady.

00:26:59

Andrea Marquez: Instant gratification is a big thing nowadays, so I think that's an important reminder. Take your time when you're building your business or creating a new product. When you do that, you're less likely to make mistakes, and like Julian and David, you'll eventually be successful, and hopefully, that comes with a lot of shared laughs. I've learned a lot from Julian and David and their journey with McMiLLER.

If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness.amazon.com. And while you're there, you can also check out the rest of the season. I spoke to so many inspiring small business owners and experts, and I've realized that there's still a lot more to learn, so I can't wait to see you in the next season of This is Small Business.

I love hearing from you. So let me know what you thought of our episodes or any topics that you'd like me to explore next season by leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. You can also reach out to us at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com. That's it for the season finale of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Businesses is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.

Are you planning on selling your business but don’t know where to start? Just ask Emmet Apolinario, President of the International Resource Group. Having transitioned into becoming a business broker after navigating the pitfalls of selling his own business, Emmet offers insights on how to evaluate your business to spare you from the same mistakes he made.

“Selling a business is not like selling real estate. It's not going to sell tomorrow.” says Emmet, “[...] preparing and planning is very important.”

Learn how you can increase your business value, who you may need on your team, and when you could be selling your business.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:41) Why and when you could be selling your business

(02:40) Challenges that might make your business difficult to sell

(03:26) Who you might need on your team to sell your business

(04:36) How to figure out what your business is worth

(06:27) How to increase your business’ value

Key takeaways:

1 -  Before you decide to sell your business, Emmet says you need to have a good reason to sell it, otherwise you might end up regretting it – like Emmet did with his first business.

2 - The best time to sell your business is when it’s doing really well. But even if your business is doing great, there’s a few things you need to watch out for that might make it difficult to sell like being cash based, not having an online presence, and being solely dependent on the owner aka you.

3 - The right team is key. Make sure you’re surrounded by the right advisor, attorney, accountant and business broker. Emmet says it’s important to do due diligence in your search when you’re building your team because they might make or break a sale.

4 - Figure out how much your business is worth. There’s a few documents that can help figure that out: Three year’s worth of tax returns, three years profit and loss, and a balance sheet of the business.

5 - If you want to increase your business’ worth, you mght want to be mindful of how you file your tax returns, and have an operations manual. Emmet says that having non-compete, non-solicitation, and non-circumvention agreements with your employees – which he called the “three nons” – could help make your business a lot more attractive to buyers.

00:00:02

Emmet Apolinario: You're putting a lot of things at risk. I remind the business brokers that when buyers are buying businesses, they're buying air. It's not something that someone could collateralize, go to the bank and say, “I have a piece of property, could you loan in it ?” You're going into risk to doing that. So preparing an exit plan when you're just starting a business is not a bad thing to do.

00:00:22

Andrea Marquez: If you're considering selling your business, whether that's now or in the future, you might be wondering where to start and what the process looks like, what documents will you need and how do you determine and improve the value of your business?

I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about how to sell your business with Emmet Apolinario, President of the International Resource Group, a company that helps businesses develop and exercise exit strategies.

00:00:52

Emmet Apolinario: I came to this journey of being a business broker out of running a business. I purchased a business in the '90s. It grew and then decided to sell it. And so I made all the mistakes in selling a business. You get busy running a business. I had 57 employees, 25 subcontractors, and we were in the software technology space and you're immersed in doing the day-to-day things of running the business, and then you decide to sell the business without any preparation. I didn't do my due diligence as far as who might be qualified to sell the business.

00:01:26

Andrea Marquez: So Emmet decided that he wanted to help other business owners avoid the mistakes he made when he sold his business, and now he has 20 years of experience being a business broker. Emmet says that the first thing you should do if you're trying to sell your business is figure out why you want to sell it.

00:01:41

Emmet Apolinario: They need to do a self-discovery. Do they really have a good reason of why they should be selling the business? I was barely 40 when I considered selling the business, and really I did not have a good reason to do so. In some cases, I regretted selling the business at that time. But I would say really determine what are the drivers for you to consider selling the business.

00:02:03

Andrea Marquez: Once you figure that out, then you need to determine if it's the right time to sell your business.

00:02:09

Emmet Apolinario: So you time the market, you time yourself if it's the right time to sell the business. I would say a smart business owners should know about themselves is the best times to sell a business is when the business is doing great.

00:02:22

Andrea Marquez: But even if your business is doing great, there are other factors that might make it a little more difficult to sell.

00:02:28

Emmet Apolinario: Businesses that are cash basis, retail businesses, there are brick and mortar that have not taken advantage of the online presence or e-commerce, I would say, will not be as attractive. Also, businesses that are solely dependent on the owner would have some challenges in selling a business. We just recently sold an IT support business that's been in the market since 2019. It's very profitable, but the challenge of that business is the owner is the only employee.

00:03:00

Andrea Marquez: But even with these challenges, you might still be able to sell your business if you have the right team, and that leads us to our next point.

00:03:07

Emmet Apolinario: You want to make sure you are surrounded by the right advisors, the right attorneys, the right accountants, and the right business broker. So going back with my own experience in hiring a business broker and selling my company, I would say doing a due diligence on the person that's going to be working with you is very important. Verify your background. Especially today, I didn't have the tools that I used today to verify someone's identity, education, LinkedIn did not exist back in 2000.  

Today you have a good amount of resources. And the thing that I find very interesting because I do take over listings from other business brokers, it's just not a match. So find out if you are talking to the right person that will represent your business well.

00:03:52

Andrea Marquez: So we've gone through the process of understanding how to evaluate if you should be selling your business. We've talked about partnering with the right people to do it. Now, you have to figure out what your business is worth.

00:04:03

Emmet Apolinario: We provide what we call an opinion of sale value, and that's looking at the market, looking at the regional, your local market of what certain businesses sell for. So one of the things I tell a business owner, the most tangible aspect of selling a business are your financials. That's the basis that we start with. I know people like to talk about their intellectual capital, their products, their services, but it all boils down to financials.  

We do collect three years worth of tax returns, the previous three years, profit and loss, and something that most business owners do not pay attention to but it is important is a balance sheet of the business. That's a scorecard of how well your business have done or how well it has not done for previous years.

00:04:48

Andrea Marquez: And if your business is getting less than a certain amount in annual sales, you might not need an audit.

00:04:54

Emmet Apolinario: So if a buyer is interested with a business, they make an offer. And then now we go through the due diligence phase. And if it's being financed through a bank, we will be going to a due diligence phase. It would be nice, but there's three forms of financial reporting we'd like to have is what we call compiled, reviewed, and audited. Obviously, the best is audited, but it is expensive, cost prohibitive to have that type of reporting.

00:05:21

Andrea Marquez: If you want to get a mini crash course on auditing, we have a whole episode dedicated to it. It's episode 52 of This is Small Business. Let's say you took a look at your financials and you didn't really like what you saw. Here's a few things to keep an eye on to make sure your business is valuable when you do decide to sell it.

00:05:38

Emmet Apolinario: I would say one of the biggest mistakes that business owners do is when they're trying to mitigate taxes, it's affecting the quality of the financials that they produce. So that's one major advice that I tell business owners is be mindful of how you file your tax returns. Not having an operations manual makes it challenging to sell a business. And I tell business owners, I call them the three nones. It's the non-compete, non- solicitation and non-circumvention. If you have those type of agreements with your employees, with your customers, with your vendors, your business is a lot more attractive out there.  

When you're selling a house, you always want to improve on your house to be sellable. In the business you always want to take a look at what could I do to make my business valuable? What could I do to make my business be relevant for the next five years? I like to use the word relevant is because with market conditions and economic changes, a business owner knows their business well and they should know what changes might come to affect the value of their business.

00:06:44

Andrea Marquez: And remember that selling your business might take some time.

00:06:49

Emmet Apolinario: Planning is important. So I have business owners, like I have one yesterday that came in, 25 year business but they're tired and they want to sell within the next six months. So I would say give yourself time to plan. Talk to right advisors, a good advisor will tell them what they need to do to prepare to sell the business. But selling a business is not like selling real estate, it's not going to sell tomorrow. I mean, you might get lucky and find a buyer within three months, these are not large corporations. But preparing and planning is very important.

00:07:23

Andrea Marquez: That was Emmet Apolinario, President of the International Resource Group. Being prepared and planning ahead is good advice for anything you do in your business. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. If you liked what you heard don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and we would love to know what you think.  

So please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, it's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com with your thoughts. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy. Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www. smallbusiness. amazon.  

That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, Hasta luego , and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Considering buying a business? Whether it's your first venture or you’re trying to expand your business, it can be a game-changer. Just ask Brian Shields, an Acquisition Entrepreneur who knows what it takes to successfully buy a business. “Try to look at at least a hundred deals to help dial yourself in so you know what kind of risk you're willing to take, what kind of business plan you really feel comfortable with, what kind of industries you feel like make sense,” Brian says, “because once you get those under your belt, then you'll feel a little bit more sophisticated when the time really comes.”

We’ll dive into the essentials: from why you should consider buying a business to breaking down all the thorough due diligence and financing options so you can find the right business that works for you!

In this episode you’ll hear:

(00:35) How Brian bought his first business

(2:42) Why buying a business could be right for you

(5:06) Research and analysis (aka due diligence) that needs to get done before you buy a business

(6:39) Where you can find businesses to buy

(8:01) Brain breaks down what the due diligence process looks like by using a coffee shop as an example

(11:00) Three ways you can pay for the business you want to buy(

13:50) Andrea and Brian go over three points you should focus on when you’re trying to find a business to buy

Key takeaways:

1 - You might consider buying a business for two reasons. If it’s your first venture into entrepreneurship, buying a business can serve as a shortcut and reduce the challenges of starting from scratch. For existing business owners, acquiring a business can help you grow.

2 - Before buying a business, thorough due diligence is crucial. Brian compares the research and analysis of the business you want to buy to inspecting a property before purchase. He says you should examine the business’ financials, reputation, team, processes, and seek assistance from consultants, accountants, or lawyers.

3 - You can do a search fund to find businesses to buy or reach out to your network to see if anyone you know might be selling their business. If you don’t have a huge network of business owners, listen to episode 46 of This is Small Business for advice on how you can expand your network!

4 - You can pay for your business in three ways: raising capital from friends and family, getting a loan from the seller, or getting the seller to roll over equity. Negotiation is key so buying a business from someone you know might make it a lot easier.

5 -  Make sure that there’s a business owner and business fit. This means that the business you buy should fit into your lifestyle or else like Brian – you might end up selling your vending machine business because you hate driving.

6 - Be honest with yourself about what your impact on the business will be. Just because the numbers look good doesn’t mean you’ll be able to handle the business if it’s not a good fit.

7 - Don’t do it alone. Brian emphasized the importance of having a business partner to bounce ideas off of.

8 - Practice makes proficient. Brian says that you should look at at least 100 deals to know what exactly you want out of a business.

00:00:01

Brian Shields: I think that the best business investments, frankly, are looked at from that lens where you can go through all the checkmarks of return on investment, but you also consider the human impact of that and find the right balance between the two because that'll give you long-term success. And when you have a long-term successful business, whether it's today, five years from now or 50 years from now, it'll be worth something to sell and a lot of people will benefit from it.

00:00:29

Andrea Marquez: Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business brought to you by Amazon. Today, we're exploring the ins and outs of buying a business. We'll talk about where to find businesses and how to choose the right one for you with Brian Shields, an acquisition entrepreneur.

00:00:45

Brian Shields: Which is a multi-syllable way of saying, I like to buy businesses and continue to improve and operate them into the next generation.

00:00:54

Andrea Marquez: He's been doing that on and off for around 20 years now. But before buying his first business, Brian worked in private equity.

00:01:01

Brian Shields: So I was at a fund in New York where we professionally acquired businesses, tried to figure out how to make them run better and ideally sell them in five years. I liked that. I was doing all the investment stuff, but I realized I didn't actually know how we made money. How do businesses make money? So I went to work at one of the portfolio companies to run a division for a while, and I never looked back.

00:01:24

Andrea Marquez: So Brian decided to buy his first business, which was five vending machines. He eventually sold it off, but he learned a lot from that experience.

00:01:35

Brian Shields: It taught me that there is some translation between institutional finance and valuing businesses, to a certain extent. It also taught me that where that part of it ends, humanity begins, right? The reason I won that business in the acquisition bid was the seller and I were just cool. We were able to vibe.

00:01:54

Andrea Marquez: Brian also realized that you need to have business owner and business fit when you're looking at what business to buy.

00:02:01

Brian Shields: And that was something I didn't totally appreciate. Just to tell you something about myself, I don't love driving. I actually very actively hate driving. But what this business required was that I drive to all the different locations and fill up the snacks and get the money and stuff like that. Well, I got tired of that pretty quickly. And so, luckily that kind of a business was easy to sell, so I was able to get my money back and put it with someone who could be a better steward of it than me.

00:02:26

Andrea Marquez: We'll dig into these lessons in a bit. But first, let's go over why you might consider buying a business.

00:02:32

Brian Shields: The way I like to think about buying a business is it should help you shortcut to something, right? And so, for people who are buying a business, typically the conversation is, I want to be an entrepreneur, but I don't want to do a startup.

00:02:46

Andrea Marquez: That's one way of looking at it. But if you're an existing business owner ...

00:02:50

Brian Shields: You're looking to either grow quickly or get something that helps augment the offering you have today. So you become a very different business very quickly by making a selective decision on which business to acquire. So I tend to find that those are kind of the pathways people find going down that road. And the thing I always caution people about is change. Change is always hard for people, both the buyer and the team that's coming from the other business. And this is something that I experienced with Hill & Co, the company that I acquired more recently. We acquired that from a retiring entrepreneur who had started it and ran it for 30 years and built it into a really meaningful business. And the previous owners in lead up to their retirement kind of just put off a lot of things that they could have done to make the lives of the clients and the team easier.

00:03:37

Andrea Marquez: And when Brian stepped in and talked about all the changes he was going to implement ...

00:03:42

Brian Shields: Some people were like, “Hooray.” And then some people were like, “The sky's falling.” I'm like going crazy. And that's natural, right? If you just think about any time you have experienced change in your life, whether it's moving cities or jobs, or in this case potentially business leaders, you feel some kind of anxiety around it.  

So if you can be empathetic with the team, you can manage the relationship and that transition effectively. But it does take a high amount of EQ and a lot of great communication to make sure that goes well. So that's one thing that I always caution people like, it's not just flipping a switch. It's not like you're buying a property and all of a sudden you get the keys and the doors are open and you can do whatever with the property. There are real humans and real people behind the business, behind the P& L that you need to be thoughtful and gracious towards as you make that transition.

00:04:31

Andrea Marquez: Okay, let's take a few steps back and go to the beginning of what you need to do when you've decided that you want to buy a business. First, you need to do your due diligence.

00:04:41

Brian Shields: That's just like the research and the analysis of the business you're buying. So I like to explain this in terms of buying a piece of property. So most people would like to walk the property when they have a chance, see pictures, get the inspections done to make sure they understand that the foundation is solid, does the roof need to be replaced, et cetera. So those are things that you naturally consider when you're buying a property.  

So is true for buying a business. You want to kick all the tires possible. And that means the financials, that means their reputation, that means their team, that means their processes. There are people that assist buyers with diligence, whether those are consultants, they're accountants, lawyers that kind of help poke around for these things.

00:05:25

Andrea Marquez: And you also need to ask yourself one very important question.

00:05:30

Brian Shields: Where is that business relative to what you intend to do with it? So if it's like, “Hey, I think that we should be completely remote,” you need to understand is this business hybrid or is it in the office, right? And then have a plan for how you're going to transition to remote. As I mentioned earlier, change is scary for people.

00:05:47

Andrea Marquez: And the way Brian finds the best deals and opportunities is by tapping into his network.

00:05:53

Brian Shields: So in a perfect world, and this is more so speaking to existing business owners, right? If you're thinking about growing through acquisition, you probably know your competitors in some frenemy, friendly way.  

And so, you probably have a sense that Jill runs a really tight ship. Jim, not so much. Jill is about to go through a divorce and maybe needs some capital and liquidity. Jim is running his business into the ground and is about to go bankrupt. And you can have a sense of what things you would need to get done, but also that creates the opportunity for you to come in and say, “Hey, let's find a way to partner,” and give you what's really important for you in your life as a business owner, but then take care of the business you've built.

00:06:33

Andrea Marquez: If you don't have a huge network of business owners, you can learn how to build your network by listening to episode 46 of this Small Business. We cover a lot in that episode, like how to prepare for and make the most out of networking events. Brian also says that there's more traditional ways of finding a business to buy, like doing a search fund.

00:06:53

Brian Shields: You will go on databases, you will talk to business brokers, you will send mail to a bunch of people in specific industries, and those are things that people should do too if you're thinking about being programmatic about this.

00:07:06

Andrea Marquez: Now, let's break down what that due diligence process could look like.

00:07:10

Brian Shields: So typically what you want to do is understand the way the business runs from the minute a client or a customer comes in to the minute cash hits your account.

00:07:20

Andrea Marquez: Let's say you decided to buy a coffee shop. Let's see what that would look like.

00:07:24

Brian Shields: You have to understand where the beans come from. How do they roast them? Where is the staff coming from? What are they paid? How do they get people in the door? How frequently? What are the seasonalities? Are things busy in the cold months and not so busy in the warm months? Or do different products sell in different parts of the year? Then you need to understand pricing. What are we charging for a cup of coffee? What are we charging for cold brew? How does that compare to other businesses in that geographic area? Do we have the opportunity to increase prices, et cetera? And then thinking about the building and the marketing, and do we want to expand? What's your growth plan? Do you want to keep just one location if you're buying it? Do you want to replicate this location? Do you want to sell the coffee as a branded item in grocery stores?

And then as you start to paint all of that picture, it will lead you to things you need to understand. For example, if those coffee beans are coming from one single vendor, you want to kick the tires on that agreement to make sure that you understand, “Hey, there's some protection for me, the new buyer, so that if I step into this, they won't change the pricing on me all of a sudden,” which is a real risk. You want to have a sense for if the lease on the property that you have the coffee shop in, will they keep the rent the same or is the term coming up a month after you buy it and will market rent then go up 20%? This is a real story that happened to me with one business. As you start to have these intuitive conversations with yourself about how does this business work, it will lead you to things you need to kick the tires on.

Now, do you need to know how to kick the tires on everything? No. Look, have foundation inspectors, roof inspectors, mold inspectors, appraisers with a property, and they're the same with buying a business. So hire an accountant, have them kick the tires with you. You want them to run what's called a quality of earnings report. It will cost money, so do it sparingly. But it is incredibly important because especially coming out of PPP time, there are a lot of people that are trying to pass off that loan and other things as revenue and hide things.  

So you just want to have somebody else kick the tires to make sure it's right. Get your lawyer to look at the agreements, have discussions with investors and lenders to see what they would ask. And really, just don't make these decisions in a bubble. That's really, really important and I can't stress that enough. The best decisions I've ever made, the best analyses I've ever run, were always in partnership with someone else.

00:09:39

Andrea Marquez: This was very helpful as a breakdown and a lot of questions you need to be asking yourself and others. And then, once you've done your due diligence on the business you want to buy, now you have to figure out how to pay for it. Thankfully, there's a few things you can do to fund your new business.

00:09:54

Brian Shields: You can raise private capital from friends and family and say, “Hey, I'm going to buy this business. I'm putting together a loan. It's whatever, a million bucks. I'm going to pay 10% on it and I'll pay you back in five years.” So these are all things that are possible. What are some nuances in this space?

00:10:09

Andrea Marquez: And in some cases, Brian says that the seller might give you a loan.

00:10:12

Brian Shields: So it's what's called seller financing, which exists to a certain extent when you're buying a property, but it's really, really prevalent buying a business. So let's say I'm buying a $ 100 business. I have $ 30 in cash. Maybe I get another $ 50 from the bank through an SBA loan or a commercial loan or whatever, but then I still need another 20, right? So a lot of cases you'll say, “Hey, seller, because this is a non-traditional asset, the bank's willing to lend this much, and I want you to feel like you're getting full value. Could you finance the rest of it and I'll pay you back from the cash flow of the business over time?” And so for them, they would do it because they get a cash payment now of the 80, that's the $ 30 plus the $ 50, and then the 20 would be on the come.

00:10:55

Andrea Marquez: You can also get the seller to roll over equity.

00:10:58

Brian Shields: Which means instead of them financing 20 and giving you a loan, they just say, “Cool, I will keep 20% ownership in the business. I'm selling you 80. You're in control, but I've sold it to you now.”

00:11:08

Andrea Marquez: So a lot is about negotiations, and that's why buying a business from someone you know is usually a good place to start, because ...

00:11:16

Brian Shields: The more the seller trusts you, the more they can be willing to be flexible.

00:11:21

Andrea Marquez: And once you buy a business, there's a few things you need to keep in mind.

00:11:24

Brian Shields: When you're in charge, people look to you as your word is gospel. And so, that might mean that if you're thinking out loud about something, people might take that as directive to act. That's an easy one. A more nuanced one might be like, I know for me sometimes I might be frustrated about something or I might give someone criticism, but not in an energetic way. I just might be like, “Hey, man, next time, let's do it this way.” But because I'm the boss or the business owner, they're like, “Ah, I'm going to get fired tomorrow.” So you have to be clear about how you wield power.

00:11:56

Andrea Marquez: And it also helps if you're aware of the responsibilities you now have, especially towards your employees.

00:12:01

Brian Shields: They have desires, dreams, passions, and ultimately you are a huge part of them feeling secure in pursuing those things and contributing that energy to this business. So keeping yourself sane and stable is really important because you have to make decisions that impact those people.

00:12:17

Andrea Marquez: Okay, we covered a lot. So let's circle back on some of the lessons learned that Brian pointed out. One, make sure there's a business owner and business fit.

00:12:28

Brian Shields: As an example, I looked at buying this photography business four or five years ago. I loved it. It was super high profit. It was super cool. The majority of the business, the revenue came in a six-month period of the year. So I was like, “Cool, we can buy this and get most of the work done in part of the year and it pays for the rest of the year. And I can chill.” However, it would require me to be on during the holidays, and I would have to miss family dinners and maybe family events, and that just didn't align with my values, so I couldn't do it. I tried very hard to figure it out, but I couldn't do it.

00:12:55

Andrea Marquez: Two, be honest with yourself about what your unfair advantage and potential impact can be with the business.

00:13:01

Brian Shields: You need to be clear with yourself about what you can do and what you're willing to tolerate in that context. People talk themselves into things all the time because the numbers look good.

00:13:10

Andrea Marquez: Three, consider doing this with a partner.

00:13:13

Brian Shields: Don't do it alone. My partner on my last business acquisition and I worked so well together. The man saved me from just insanity. Just having somebody else to talk to, to bounce ideas off of, to make better decisions with was incredibly helpful.

00:13:29

Andrea Marquez: And if you're still feeling a little nervous about going out there and finding a business to buy ...

00:13:35

Brian Shields: Try to look at least a hundred deals to help dial yourself in, so you know what kind of risk you're willing to take, what kind of business plan you really feel comfortable with, what kind of industries you feel like makes sense. Because once you get those under your belt, then you'll feel a little bit more sophisticated when the time really comes. It's like practice before you play, right? And that practice will make you proficient. That's what I tell my daughter. So get out there and practice.

00:14:00

Andrea Marquez: I love that, practice makes proficient. So just go out there and start your search. That was a lot of very helpful information. If you didn't get the chance to write down everything, don't worry we've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.  

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business brought to you by Amazon. If you liked what you heard, make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And if you have any thoughts or other topics you'd like me to cover, let us know by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com.  

Until next time, This is Small Business. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego , and thanks for listening.  

This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Expanding your business and drawing in more customers may seem overwhelming, but it doesn’t have to be! Just ask Amy Porterfield, New York Times bestselling author of Two Weeks Notice and Host of The Online Marketing Made Easy Podcast, who managed to increase her sales in only a year.

“The people who need you will find you, even if you put a stake in the ground.” Amy says. “If your message resonates with them, but doesn't fit perfectly, that's okay. If they like what you're saying and they find value, they will find you.”

Learn how you can replicate Amy’s growth by managing your mindset, creating a customer avatar, and growing your email list. In this episode you’ll hear:

(00:45) How Amy started her business

(03:02) How negative thoughts can impede growth

(05:57) How to build your customer avatar

(08:11) How content creation helped Amy grow

(09:27) How to grow your email list

(12:16) Common mistakes that might affect your growth

Key takeaways:

1 - Manage your mindset. Amy says that you need to consume inspiring stories and lessons and try your best to avoid negative thoughts.

2 - Define your target audience by crafting a customer avatar. This avatar might represent your past self or someone entirely different. If it's the latter, you'll need to talk to your customers to understand what they expect from you.

3 - Don’t be afraid to get specific with your customer avatar. The people who need you will find you.

4 - Generate original content tailored to your brand. According to Amy, this will establish you and your brand as a reliable source and will attract a larger audience to your business. We go into a lot more detail and touch on how to create content on social media on episode 45 of This is Small Business.

5- Create an email list. Amy says that having an email list means having ownership of your subscribers.

6 - You need to be intentional about growing your email list. Amy suggests having a pre-launch strategy and offering freebies to your subscribers. We dig into how to start and grow your email list on episode 56 of This is Small Business with Amy’s best friend Jenna Kutcher!

7 -  Get laser-focused on your message and keep it clear and consistent. It's easy for entrepreneurs to spread themselves thin, but Amy says that the most successful people stick to a few things and nail them consistently.

00:00:01

Amy Porterfield: 80% of being an entrepreneur, like the success of being an entrepreneur is your mindset. 20% is the mechanics. So I quickly learned how to manage my mind because this is going to be a big part of that. So I had to work on myself, but also important is I had to change the strategies. When I first launched that course, I made $267, I had no email list. And I really believe to this day that if you want a thriving online business, you have to be intentional about growing an email list.

00:00:35

Andrea Marquez: I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll figure out how you can grow your business and find new customers with Amy Porterfield, a New York Times bestselling author and the host of the Online Marketing Made Easy Podcast.

00:00:50

Amy Porterfield: So I often say I am an ex-corporate girl turned accidental entrepreneur. About 15 years ago, I left my last corporate job with Tony Robbins and I was the Director of Content Development for many years with Tony, but I got this desire to want to be my own boss, call my own shots, and so I took a very big risk and went out on my own.

00:01:13

Andrea Marquez: Amy ended up building an online business where she teaches people how to take their knowledge and skill set and turn that into a profitable digital course. And what actually pushed Amy to venture into entrepreneurship was a meeting that Tony Robbins held 17 years ago.

00:01:30

Amy Porterfield: Tony had called in a bunch of internet marketers into the San Diego headquarters to talk about their online businesses. Tony was getting more into the online space, and so he brought in these guys and they sat around this big oak table and I was called in to take notes. So I sat at a little side table to take notes at this really important meeting to learn how these guys were making money online. And so Tony went around and he said, “Tell me about your businesses.”

00:01:56

Andrea Marquez: Everyone in that room had a different niche, but they all had digital courses or memberships and they were all doing business online.

00:02:04

Amy Porterfield: I think I took the worst notes of my life that day because when they went around, they all talked about freedom. Freedom to call the shots, to make as much money as they want, to impact lives the way they want to, to be as creative as they wanted to. And I thought, “I don't even know what these guys are doing or how they're doing it, but I want in.” And so that was that first moment that I thought, “I've got to figure this out.”

00:02:26

Andrea Marquez: And then a year after that meeting, Amy went out on her own. In 2011, she launched her first digital course but it didn't really do well.

00:02:37

Amy Porterfield: I made a whopping $ 267 and then I cried for an entire week because I made it mean in my head, “I'm not cut out to be an entrepreneur. I don't know what I'm doing. Who am I to be doing this? I need to go grovel back for my nine to five job. I've made a mess of this.”

00:02:52

Andrea Marquez: She wallowed in these feelings until her husband was like ...

00:02:56

Amy Porterfield: “You need to get it together because this isn't going to work.”

00:02:59

Andrea Marquez: And then a year later.

00:03:02

Amy Porterfield: I made $30, 000 in a very short period of time with my own digital course.

00:03:07

Andrea Marquez: So how did Amy manage to grow her business in the span of a year? First, she had to manage her mindset.

00:03:15

Amy Porterfield: Now, some people might be rolling their eyes. They're like, “Yeah, give us the strategies, Amy. We know that mindset's important.” But really do we understand how much it plays a part in terms of believing in yourself, fueling your brain every day with inspiring stories and lessons of inspiration to keep you moving forward? I believe the first thought that entered my mind, which was, “You're not cut out to do this, you're a failure.” Now I'm really clear that I cannot believe everything I think, at least not the first thought. So it took me a while to kind of get my head in the game and realize, “Wait a second, I've got to mind my mindset here and be very careful what I think and what I feel, or this is never going to work.”

00:03:54

Andrea Marquez: I love that we're starting out with this. It's such an important aspect of being an entrepreneur and because it can sound very fluffy to some, it's often overlooked. Now Amy has a lot of support to help her manage her mindset. She has a therapist, a business coach, a health and wellness coach, and loads of friends in the industry.

00:04:14

Amy Porterfield: That's a lot of people in my corner. And the reason for that is because I know it's a very dangerous and lonely place inside my mind. I could go to the most wildest places. I could wake up one morning and things don't work in my business, and I could tell myself, “This is a mess. This is falling apart.” It's a really scary place in my mind sometimes. So to have the right support around me is everything.

00:04:37

Andrea Marquez: But 15 years ago when Amy was first starting her business, she didn't have the money to spend on a wellness coach or a business coach. Instead, she relied on free resources to get the support she needed.

00:04:48

Amy Porterfield: I got it all through podcasts and blogs and getting into mastermind groups with other people so that I could surround myself with people that will inspire me and also support me. So I think there's no badge of honor in doing this alone. So if you are just a lone wolf and you just want to build your business online and don't get support or help from anyone, it's going to be a rough road. We need that support in order to make sure that we keep moving forward when it gets tough.

00:05:15

Andrea Marquez: So managing your mindset by staying inspired and surrounding yourself with people that support you can help you grow. But Amy also had to adjust her strategies.

00:05:23

Amy Porterfield: When I first launched that course and made $ 267, I had no email list. It was a really small email list, and I never emailed them. And I really believe to this day that if you want a thriving online business, you have to be intentional about growing an email list. Social media is not enough and social media is fickle. The way you've been doing business on social media could literally change overnight. We saw this years ago when we were all using Facebook for our businesses, it was working great, and then you had to pay to play and everything changed. So I will never again put all my eggs in one basket and only rely on social media.

00:05:59

Andrea Marquez: We'll get into how to grow your email list in a minute. But first, you need to figure out who you're trying to serve.

00:06:06

Amy Porterfield: One of the easiest ways is to first ask yourself, “Am I my customer avatar just like 10 years ago or 5 years ago?” Here's what I mean. I serve mainly women, but there's a lot of men in my audience as well, but women who want to leave behind the nine to five and start making their own money and becoming their own boss.

I was that woman in a cubicle 15 years ago, not making as much money as I wanted, not wanting a boss but I had one, and really struggling to climb the corporate ladder. I know how she feels, I know her pain, her struggles, her self-doubts, her dreams, her wants. I get her because I was her. And sometimes that's the easiest place to start. If you could be your avatar just a few years ago, you'll really understand how to put together your marketing message because you lived their lives, you understand them.

00:06:53

Andrea Marquez: If you've never been your customer avatar, Amy says that you need to start talking to them.

00:06:58

Amy Porterfield: So I encourage my students to get on a Zoom call, ask someone for 15, 20 minutes, ask them the questions.  “What are you struggling with? What have you tried? What do you need? Where do you look online to get the solution?” Start learning from them because that's going to help immensely.

00:07:14

Andrea Marquez: And if you're struggling with figuring out who your avatar is because you don't want to exclude potential customers ...

00:07:20

Amy Porterfield: The people who need you will find you, even if you put a stake in the ground. If your message resonates with them but doesn't fit perfectly, that's okay. If they like what you're saying and they find value, they will find you. So I have a lot of men in my audience. I have a lot of people who already quit their nine to five job, but they find something of value in my messaging, and so they come into my programs. So don't be scared to put that stake in the ground. I promise you it's going to help you get known and seen in a very noisy online world.

00:07:49

Andrea Marquez: So to figure out who you're trying to serve, Amy says that you need to create a customer avatar. You can do this by looking at your past experiences if your old self is your avatar, or by talking to the people you want to reach. And don't be scared of being specific. You won't exclude any potential customers that don't look like your avatar. If they need your services, they'll find you. Another thing that helped Amy grow and gain new customers was content creation.

00:08:16

Amy Porterfield: At the time, it was a blog and then it moved into a podcast. But I really believe that if you create your own original content every week, rain or shine, you become a go-to source. People rely on you. They know you. They want to be in your orbit. Without that weekly original content, you just get lost in the sea of noise online and on social. So I started to create my own content every week, and that changed everything for me as well. And I just want to speak to the people that are listening, they're like, “Amy, I don't want to do TikTok videos. I don't want to do silly dances online. I don't want to do all the trending lip-syncing and all of that. None of that is for me.” That is fine because it's not really for me either. I'll play around with it once in a while, but I kind of hate it.

And so I try to find the trends or what's working that would speak to me and feel good to me because social media is a big part of growing a business, whether you're a personal brand or a company brand, you need it. I think you need an email list a lot more than you need social, but social will help you grow that email list.

00:09:14

Andrea Marquez: We have a whole episode dedicated to content creation and how to leverage social media to grow your business. It's episode 45 of This is Small Business, so if you want to learn more, go ahead and check it out. We mentioned earlier that growing a business is easier if you have an email list. But how do you get people to sign up for your email list? The first thing Amy says you should do is be intentional about growing it.

00:09:39

Amy Porterfield: So that means every single week you're thinking about how am I getting more people on my email list and how am I nurturing them? So remember when I said I have a podcast that comes out every single week, rain or shine? The way I nurture the people already on my email list is when I have a new podcast episode, I email them and I say, “Hey, I've got something new for you today. Here's why you're going to love it. Go take a listen.” So my weekly original content, it supports the audience I already have and then attracts a new audience because the podcast networks will push it out to new people.

00:10:11

Andrea Marquez: Another strategy that Amy says is often overlooked and can help you grow your email list is having a prelaunch strategy.

00:10:19

Amy Porterfield: Let's say you know that you're going to launch a new product on June 1st. So May 1st, I would spend an entire month, 30 days of priming the pump. Now, what does that look like? Well, I'm not talking about the product I'm going to sell. I might hint at it, but I'm talking around it, topics that relate to the product I'm going to sell. I have freebies related to the product I'm going to sell.  

So for example, if I sell a program of how to create and launch a digital course, one of my freebies might be a quiz, How To Know If You're Ready To Add A Digital Course To Your Business. People sign up for the quiz, they take it, they give me their name and email to get the results. So that might be a quiz I do in my prelaunch period.

Or I might have a PDF, How To Choose The Perfect Course Topic When You're Ready To Create Your Course. So now I'm getting, I'm thinking, “What might I create if I ever created a course?” I'm not talking about the fact I'm going to sell something soon. I'm not leading up to it in that way. I'm just giving great amazing free value for an entire month. I'm using it to grow my email list because these are the people I'm going to market it to, but I'm also giving immense value. I'm showing up live on video. I might do some extra podcasts that month, but the month of May will be my prelaunch 30-day runway.

So there's this golden question you can ask yourself during that prelaunch period, and it's, “What does my audience need to believe, understand, be aware of, or just change their mindset around before they're ever ready to buy from me?” So what does my audience need to be aware of, understand, believe before they're ever ready to buy? And you're going to give them that content to have a new understanding, a new idea, a new clarity during the prelaunch period. So when you're ready to sell, they're ready to buy.

00:12:05

Andrea Marquez: That sounds like such a simple yet effective way to get more people to sign up to your email list. We've talked a lot about what you should be doing to attract more customers. So now let's get into some common mistakes that might hinder your growth.

00:12:18

Amy Porterfield: One of them is trying to do too many things, too many offers, too many messages where people are very confused what they need to come to you for in order to get the results they're looking for. So I think that's one thing, honing in on your message and getting clear, this is what I offer and what I'm all about.  

I think another thing is that a lot of business owners, because we're trying to do so much and wear so many hats, we lack consistency. I was absolutely guilty of this for many, many years. I'll do a podcast today and then I won't have another one for three more weeks. I try this new social media thing and say, “I'm going to do it all month.” I do it for a week. It's very normal and human to not be consistent with these things. But I look at the winners, I pay attention to who's winning in this online business game. If they have physical products or online products, it doesn't matter. The people that are winning are consistent with what they're doing, and they do very little, but they do it really well. So I think if you become a person who identifies, I am a consistent person, changes everything.

00:13:20

Andrea Marquez: So staying consistent can be tough when you're doing many things on your own, but that's when evaluating what type of help you need comes into play, and honing in on your messaging is also key to keep customers coming back. I learned so much from talking to Amy.  

If you didn't have a chance to write everything down, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. And if you liked the episode, don't forget to leave us a review like this one from Fernieboy234 who said, “Love this podcast, part of my weekly listen and exciting to hear different types of businesses and how they're succeeding. I like that it's not just interviews all the time.” Thank you, Fernieboy234. I'm glad that This is Small Business is part of your week. I'd love to know what you think. So please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com with your thoughts.

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business brought to you by Amazon. Make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego and thanks for listening.  

This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Want to build a loyal following of people who are excited to buy what you're selling? Stop spending your valuable time on the wrong marketing channels, and prioritize an email list. So says Jenna Kutcher, a digital marketing expert and host of The Goal Digger Podcast. After attracting thousands of followers on social, but seeing so few convert to customers, Jenna learned about the power of owning an email list - and she hasn't looked back! It's the number one ways she drives sales in her business.

You'll learn how to start a list, where to find your first subscribers, and how to grow and maintain a list.  Plus, the surprising benefits of an email list - beyond the high ROI.

(06:40) Where to find your first subscribers

(07:25) How to use your email list to test out new business ideas

(09:40) The TWO things you need to focus on as an entrepreneur

(11:00) Tacticts Jenna uses to drive followers from social and the podcast to her list

(14:30) How to make time for your email list

(15:50) Don't make these two mistakes with your email list!

(18:00) Convinced? Here's how to start your listLearn how to go from zero subscribers to an engaged list that lasts. Sign up for Jenna's FREE Email Building Master Class at jennkutcher.com/list. It only happens once a year - don't miss out!

Key Takeaways:

1. When Jenna started her list, she created a free downloadable PDF called "Five Ways To Grow Your Instagram Following". It wasn't pretty, but it did the job. She created a little signup form to gather emails in exchange for the PDF. She shared it on her own socials, but also in Facebook groups she was a part of and Pinterest.

2. How to use your email list to test out new business ideas: Jenna offers different freebies in exchange for peoples emails. If she gets a lot of sign ups, she knows the offer is exciting enough that people are willing to give up something of value in exchange (their email address). Using that information, she might turn that idea into another product.

3. The TWO things you need to focus on as an entrepreneur: Your first priority has to be growing your email list. The second is to use any other efforts you put forward to grow your list. Her number one measure of success for, say, a social campaign is how effective it is at growing her email list.

4. In The Goal Digger Podcast, Jenna shares value ads from her email list and lets them know how they can sign up.

5. Her email list is the number one way Jenna drives sales. "Social media is meant to be the handshake. Email is where you sell." People are on social to be distracted, educated, entertained. People are more ready to buy when they're in their email.

6. The average entrepreneur spends hours in their inbox. Add a bit of strategy and, instead of going one-to-one, you can go one-to-many. This will give you insights into what people want so that it's easier to sell, and it creates a group of people who are excited to buy when you're ready to sell.

7. Don't make these two mistakes with your email list! 1. Don't bury your email sign up on your website. 2. Don't send out an email only when you want to sell. If you serve your audience and show up regardless whether you have something to sell, they'll be ready to buy when you have something to sell.

8. Where should you begin? First, think of two different offers that would be valuable to your listeners in exchange for their email. By providing two different offers, you get insight into what your audience wants from you. This can stop you from going too far down the wrong path. Second, use your existing channels, such as your podcast or socials, to talk about the valuable freebies available on your email list.

9. Learn how to go from zero subscribers to an engaged list that lasts. Sign up for Jenna's FREE Email Building Master Class at jennkutcher.com/list. It only happens once a year - don't miss out!

00:00:02

Andrea Marquez: I've been hearing a lot about the power of an email list or a newsletter and how much that can contribute to your growth and success as a business owner. It helps you reach people that want to hear from you and you get to own your audience, something that you can't have by just using social media. But how do you start an email list and how do you maintain it and push out content consistently? And beyond just owning your audience, what other benefits come from it?  

To answer these questions, I'll be talking to Jenna Kutcher, the host of one of the most popular marketing podcasts, and also one of my favorites, The Gold Digger.

00:00:41

Jenna Kutcher: One of the things that I'm obsessed with when it comes to being an entrepreneur is looking at the return on investment, with the main investment being our time.  

I have two young kids, I don't have a ton of extra time, and so anytime that I'm spending in my business, I want to make sure that it's worth it, that it drives real results, that I can have the receipts to back it up. And so when you think about an email list and serving it, is a lot easier than you're making it out to be because instead of screaming to the masses like you are on social media, you are reaching out to the people who have already exchanged something valuable to them to get something valuable from you.  

These are the people that have literally raised their hand and said, “I want more of what you've got”. And so you are speaking to the people who are already curious and invested in what you've created. And so it is an entirely different conversation than the one that you're trying to have or the one that you're trying to use to sell that is likely falling flat.

00:01:33

Andrea Marquez: Jenna figured out how powerful an email list can be early on in her career, and she'll be sharing all the steps she took to build her list so you can be just as successful. I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll talk about how you can build your email list even if you think you don't have time for it, because an email list can be a lot more rewarding than you think.

00:02:01

Jenna Kutcher: For every email subscriber you have on your email list it should equate to one extra dollar of revenue per month if you are serving that subscriber. And so imagine if you even had 250 people on your email list what that could equate to in terms of results for you. Food for thought, because adding one more follower to your social media following doesn't actually reap a lot of results. And so where is your energy going? Where's your focus going? This is exactly why email list building is our number one priority.

00:02:31

Andrea Marquez: We'll be giving you loads of actionable steps that you can use to grow your email list. But first, let's hear how Jenna realized she needed an email list.

00:02:41

Jenna Kutcher: So it's an embarrassing story. For my career trajectory I started off as a wedding photographer, fully self-taught, used my camera to get out of my 9-to-5.

00:02:52

Andrea Marquez: Jenna's business was growing and doing well, but eventually she felt burnt out.

00:02:57

Jenna Kutcher: I'm sure there are some people listening where you hit this place of burnout, you maybe achieved this level of success, and yet you are so burnt to a crisp that you can't imagine doing the same thing for years from now, that's where I was at. And so I had hit six figures, I was so grateful for that goal, but when I reached it I felt empty and I knew something had to change.

00:03:17

Andrea Marquez: Jenna realized that she was a lot happier when she was making less, so she decided to book half the number of weddings the following year.

00:03:25

Jenna Kutcher: I cut back my salary in half, but the one thing that I got back was my time. And when I got back my time, I started getting curious about other areas of business, other ways of running businesses.

00:03:38

Andrea Marquez: And that curiosity led Jenna to hire her first business coach.

00:03:45

Jenna Kutcher: And on the first coaching call, I show up, I am so proud of myself, I had 10, 000 followers on Instagram. I thought he was going to be so excited. And we get on the call and he asks me, he says, “How big is your list?” And I legitimately thought he was talking about my to-do list, and I was like, “Well, I'm writing blogs, I'm posting to Facebook, I'm creating content for Instagram. My list is long”. And he was like, “No, no, no. How big is your email list?” And I was like, “Well, I have a following on social media…”

And all this sudden he's like, “No, an email list is an asset that you own”.  

And that day he pointed me to a podcast about email list building, and I felt this feeling deep in my gut of I was already doing all the things I couldn't imagine adding on one more thing, but it clicked for me that I was building my business on space I didn't own space, space I couldn't control. Social media, I had no control over that.  

And so that was a day that I started growing my email list, and that was many, many years ago. And so I am so grateful that he wasn't duped by what I was doing on social and challenged me to think a little bit bigger because that started the whole email list building journey that I've been on ever since.

00:04:56

Andrea Marquez: At the time, Jenna was starting to pivot into other areas of business, so there were a few barriers she had to overcome before she started building her email list.

00:05:06

Jenna Kutcher: I was trying to figure out who am I even serving? What do I say to them, and how do I get them to sign up? What does this all look like? I was also really afraid of the tech. It is amazing that I know how to plug in my microphone and turn my camera on these days because I am not that comfortable with tech. And I think that's a limiting mindset belief, but also just something that is a reality. I could write and speak all day, but when I go to link up softwares, I start to panic. And so tech really scared me.

And the last thing was is that when I was thinking about time, let me be honest, that social media felt sexy to me, right? It's a number that people can see. It's this badge of honor, so to speak. Growing an email list is kind of unsexy. No one is actually peeking under the hood to see how many subscribers you have. And so I really had to let my ego die in a way to focus on why this mattered and where I was going to get that time from, which ultimately was coming from social media.

00:06:03

Andrea Marquez: I love that you said mindset because our next episode is with Amy Porterfield and she's like my best friend.

00:06:11

Jenna Kutcher: Oh really?

00:06:12

Andrea Marquez: She's literally my best friend in the whole world. Well look at that, we didn't do that on purpose listeners. But you brought up two points that we really dig into in episode 57 with Amy, how to figure out who you're serving and how to manage your mindset and the importance of staying positive. So I'm wondering, once you figured out who you were serving, what was the first thing you did?

00:06:41

Jenna Kutcher: I created this freebie and it was like five ways to grow your Instagram following, and it was a downloadable PDF. I don't even think I knew how to make things pretty at the time. I'm pretty sure I made it in Microsoft Word and exported it as a PDF. And so I just had a little sign-up form and I absolutely did leverage the audience that I had, but I was also savvy enough to go to other audiences. So Facebook groups that I was a part of, I started sharing about my freebie there. I later on learned the power of Pinterest. That is a huge way that we grow our email list, and it doesn't necessarily matter how many followers you have on Pinterest. And so I always start with who's already there, but expand out and think about how you can reach other people. And that's exactly what we've done in our list building process.

00:07:27

Andrea Marquez: Jenna was also dipping her toes into the education space and was using her freebies to test out different ideas before she created a program about it.

00:07:35

Jenna Kutcher: One thing I think people don't realize is that starting an email list and creating different freebies is the perfect low risk sampling ground to see what people actually find valuable. A lot of people create an offer because maybe once they did a poll on Instagram or they asked five of their friends, “Hey, would you actually buy this thing?” And people said “Yes”. And then when they went to collect their credit card information, everybody balked and backed out. And so starting your email list and thinking through this value exchange, it allows for people to really put some stake in the game and give you something of value in exchange to get what you've created.  

So over my career, we have used different freebies and PDFs and ideas as a testing ground to say, does this have legs? Will people actually find this valuable, or is this just an idea that lives in my head that shouldn't go any further than that? And so I think that a lot of people get intimidated by email list building, but the truth is it's a beautiful place to experiment and to really get your audience to take action with you. Action beyond just liking and commenting on social media.

00:08:39

Andrea Marquez: That's such a creative way of using an email list. You get to see the demand on the products or services you want to offer your customers, and it gives you the opportunity to pivot before you invest too much time or money into your idea. And an email list also gives you the opportunity to sell your products or services without sounding too salesy.

00:09:03

Jenna Kutcher: I think that one of the biggest problems that entrepreneurs face is one, they hate selling, right? I've never really met a lot of people that raise their hand and they're like, “I love to sell my thing”. This gives you an opportunity to serve people before you ever go to sell to them. And I think this is so important. If you're going to get somebody results for free, they are going to be far more likely to pay you for whatever it is that you have to sell.

00:09:29

Andrea Marquez: If we've managed to convince you that you need to start and grow an email list, you might be getting overwhelmed at the idea of maintaining it and creating content consistently, especially if you're already doing the same for your social media. But...

00:09:43

Jenna Kutcher: I'm going to let you guys in on a secret. So I believe that there are only two things you have to focus on as an entrepreneur in order to drive results. Two things. I think we get so caught up in the million things that we could do. The first priority has to be growing your email list. The email list is an asset that you own, it's something you can control, it is virtually algorithm-proof. The second thing that you need to focus on is any other efforts that you are putting forth in your business, the goal of those efforts should be to grow your email list. That's it.  

So the goal of my podcast is to convert listeners into email subscribers. The goal of my Instagram is to get people off of Instagram onto my email list. The goal of Pinterest is to show my pins to get people to land on my website and opt in for my email list.  

Every effort that I put forth on the internet, and I have a complex system, all of those efforts, the number one goal and the number one way we measure success is not on those platforms themselves, but in how effective they are at getting people off of those platforms and into a place that we own and can control, which is our email list.

00:10:48

Andrea Marquez: So you might want to completely distill your marketing efforts into two things. One, prioritize growing your email list and serving your audience there. And two, the goal and objective of other content you produce should be to grow your email list.

00:11:04

Jenna Kutcher: Whenever we work on an episode, we are always thinking, do we have some sort of value offer that is a logical next step for our listener? Because here's the thing, real marketing has no dead ends.  

Real true marketing always has the next invitation. Now, not everyone's going to RSVP yes to that invitation, but you have to keep putting it out there. You never want to end any piece of content, whether it's a blog post, a podcast episode, anything, with somebody asking themselves, “Okay, great. But now what?” You always want to extend that invite.  

And so even yesterday I was recording an episode for The Gold Digger podcast, and inside of that episode there were multiple mentions of different ways that people could sign up for my email list through value ads that made entire sense based on the topic that I was teaching on. And so you can either start with that email list building thing as the goal and the objective of that episode, or you can incorporate it organically into the content.  

Either way, we can't even access who our listeners are, so we can't be in touch with them to let them know what we have going on. And so if we don't actually try to get people off of the platforms, we're doing them a disservice because we're not actually able to reach out to them when we have important information to communicate.

00:12:20

Andrea Marquez: So Jenna, we've talked about having freebies to get people to sign up for your email list, but what actually goes into the emails you send out?

00:12:29

Jenna Kutcher: I lead with the idea of the jab, jab, jab, right hook of serve, serve, serve, serve, and then sell. And honestly, I don't even like using the word sell. It's more like an invitation for an offer. And so when we look at what we're sending out in a month, we're sending people additional resources, we're pointing to the podcast, we're sending just straight up encouragement with no links. We're letting people in behind the scenes. We're sharing about exclusive offers. It's just this rhythm that we've created, this life force in our business.  

My email list is the number one way that I drive sales and results in my business. If somebody told me everything's going to disappear tomorrow but you get to choose one thing, it would be my email list. It has been said in the marketing world, if you want to double your business, just double your email list.

And I have seen that to be true time and time again. The same is not true for social media. I love social media. I work so hard on social media, but I am not as confident that I could even make a sale on social media because social media is not built for us to sell. We're all seeing that right now with the algorithm and people are running their heads into the wall of why is this not working? Social media is meant to be the handshake. Email is meant to be where you sell. When people go into their inboxes, they are much more poised for purchase than when they're on social media.

People are on social media to be distracted, to be entertained, to be educated. They're not there thinking, I'm going to pull up my wallet. And so it's just so interesting to me because people are getting so frustrated with the systems and the platforms they're on, but they're not actually pausing to ask themselves, what is the intent of this and how do I play the game well so that the system works? And I think that's where people get frustrated.  

And so my email list is the hands down number one way we drive results, and I think people are missing out on this opportunity to do the same. Again, you're reaching people who are already interested and curious in what you're selling versus trying to convince the masses who are probably not even hearing you.

00:14:30

Andrea Marquez: But what if as a small business owner, I don't have time to write an email every week.

00:14:38

Jenna Kutcher: I'm going to ask you a question. Are you writing emails every day?

00:14:42

Andrea Marquez: I certainly am, yes.

00:14:44

Jenna Kutcher: Okay. So what would it look like if you were able to write one email and reach a bunch of people? I think the average entrepreneur spends hours in their inbox every single week, hours. So what would it look like to add a tiny bit of strategy to work you're already doing? And instead of going one-to-one, you're able to go one-to-many. It's actually not that much work. This is actually going to save you so much time because you are going to learn how to anticipate people's questions before they can ask them.  

You're going to learn to serve them before you can ever go to sell to them. And you're going to get insights and information into what people actually want so that your offers actually sell. It's actually not that hard. And one of the things that I really love to teach is what would it look like if you sat down and just mapped out the next month of whatever that is?  

So whether it's one email a week or one email a month, I'd argue that it's going to take you one to two hours. You're already spending that time going back and forth with one people when you could actually make something that reaches more than one person with a goal and an intent and an ability to drive a real result.

00:15:53

Andrea Marquez: But there's two mistakes that you might want to look out for when you're starting an email list.

00:15:57

Jenna Kutcher: The number one mistake that people make when they go to start an email list is they bury a little thing at the very bottom of their website that says, “Join my newsletter”. Who wants to join a newsletter these days? I already get so many emails in my inbox, I don't need another one if I don't know what value you're providing me. And so growing an email list is actually way easier than you're making it out to be because you just need to find something that your audience will think is valuable, valuable enough for them to exchange your email address for.

00:16:26

Andrea Marquez: And the second mistake is only using your email list when you're trying to sell something.

00:16:32

Jenna Kutcher: And I've seen this happen in so many entrepreneurs lives, where all of a sudden they haven't posted in two months and now they're on and they're talking about this thing that they've got to sell. And so I think that the mistake that I made in the past and that other people tend to make is that they forget the power of serving.  

Even yesterday, we sent out an email and it was just about encouraging. I have been in seasons of burnout and I was just talking about it to my audience and letting people in. And there's so much power in allowing somebody to say, “Me too, I'm not alone. Oh my gosh”. And it connects you. And so when you create a rhythm around your marketing, you'll be showing up regardless of if you have something to sell. And you'll be serving people so that when you go to sell, you have this list that is ready to be launched to.

And I think that it shifts, again, that feeling of selling, selling now becomes a service because these people are like, what is the next step? The next step is to invest in whatever that is, whether it's a product, service or an offer. And so when you're serving so well, people are ready and excited for what it is that you're launching. And so I think that a lot of times we as business owners we're like, “I've got nothing to say on the everyday life front”, and then all of a sudden we're like, “I've got something to sell”. And we miss this opportunity to serve and connect in the middle.

00:17:53

Andrea Marquez: Hearing you speak about all of this, I feel like we should use This is Small Business as a case study. If I want to give my listeners more resources and stay connected between episodes and also reach people who don't listen to podcasts, where would you recommend I begin if I want to start an email list?

00:18:12

Jenna Kutcher: So the first thing I would do is think of two different offers that you think would be interesting for your listeners. So kind of look at what some of your top episodes have been or what questions you get asked the most. Now, the reason why I would do two different offers is that you're going to get insight into what people think is more valuable. There are so many data points in email marketing that can help guide the direction forward.  

So here's a quick story. When we were trying to grow our family, my husband had a deep desire to be a stay-at-home dad. And in between him leaving a career and being a stay-at-home dad, he started a health coaching business. And before he even had a website or a business name, I knew the power of email list building. And so I said, “We're going to start growing your list before you have anything to sell before you even know what you're called”.

And so in his health coaching business, we created two freebies. One was stay at home workouts that you can do with no equipment. So it was like five, 10 minute workouts you can do from home. And the other one was our exact grocery list and meal prep menu for the week. And he totally was going to build an entire business around stay at home workouts because he had saw as an entrepreneur how hard it was for me to get movement in.  

And he was gung ho on this whole business idea. We released these two different freebies and leveraged the small audience that he had at the time, and we saw that the meal prep and the grocery shopping list 10x'd the at home workouts. It saved us from going too far down the wrong path for a business and really helped his branding, his copy, speak to people that wanted it.  

So I would encourage anyone listening to have two different opt-ins that are slightly different in nature so that you can actually start to get insight and data into what people think is interesting enough to exchange your email address for.

00:20:02

Andrea Marquez: And how would I use the podcast to grow the email list?

00:20:05

Jenna Kutcher: I would make sure that even in the intro of your podcast, you could say, “Hey, we've created this free productivity calendar. Go get your copy. This has been amazing for our listeners. Here's why we put it together”. At the end of the episode, say the same thing. When you're recording content, if there's a way to integrate it in, if you're talking about your calendar, plug it again.  

Then on the next episode, you could do something totally different like the five tools we can't live without at This is Small Business and have that. You can start to get that insight and information. To reach people that are not podcast listeners. One, you can reach them with the podcast in different ways. So you could do little clips on social media and talk about it. And then again, push to that freebie. It's actually not that complicated and it'll give you so much insight, again, into your die hard audience who want to go the next step for you.

00:20:58

Andrea Marquez: So it's A/ B testing what I'm hearing. So what we're doing at the beginning based on the content that has already performed well with our listeners?

00:21:07

Jenna Kutcher: And you could do that. And if somebody's listening and they're like, I don't even have content, I can't see what's performed. Take two different ideas you have. Most entrepreneurs have no shortage of ideas, we have a bajillion ideas. Start with one and then see if you can add in a second and promote them both the same amount, however you're promoting it, wherever you are. If you're on Facebook and you have 100 friends on there, promote it there, see what people are curious about. But again, that insight is going to guide you forward. And in the meantime, you're growing your list.

00:21:36

Andrea Marquez: Now let's take a look at how you can apply all this information and grow your email list if you're a product based business.

00:21:43

Jenna Kutcher: You want to create resources that paint your product as the hero. So let's say you have a closet organization system. You could do five ways to give you the closet of your dreams and your product can be positioned in that resource as the hero so that people are like, “Oh my gosh, add to cart”. They're creating value around the topic that their product is a solution for. So there are so many ways to do it, and again it's not selly or spammy, you are literally giving the invitation for the next step for those who are ready to join you on it.  

And I think that there are so many different ways to speak to people so that you're not focused on the features of your product itself, but you're more focused on the end result. What does the consumer truly want? Maybe they want to feel more peaceful, maybe they want to feel beautiful, maybe they want to feel calm.

And so when you think of it in this way, it totally takes out this desire to be like, here are the five product features that people might not even know why they should care about those features, and it helps connect them to their true desired end results while giving them value, again for free, and then kind of being this breadcrumb on the path to purchase of like, “Oh, wow, they actually have a solution for this. I might not be ready to buy it now, but when I get that email two months from now and I'm in a different position as a purchaser, I'm ready to pull the trigger”.  

So it just changes the relationship. And also you learn a different way to speak to your consumers where you're not so feature focused and you're more focused on what is the true result that they want when they buy my product. And I think that shifts the conversation immensely.

00:23:20

Andrea Marquez: Jenna has given us loads of helpful information on why and how to grow your email list. So it sounds like the time to start your email list is now.

00:23:31

Jenna Kutcher: So once I figured it out and I was like, “Wait, this isn't as complicated and scary as it made it out to be”. I didn't want to gatekeep this information. And I think that this is so powerful because we are living in a time where we are building our dreams on rented space. Social media is rented space. And so if you want to build a true asset in your business, I truly believe it has to be an email list.  

So I have a free training, it's called From zero Subscribers and zero Strategy through an engaged email list that lasts. And inside this training, I'm going to walk you through what do you say, how do you start, how do you say it, how does it get delivered? All of the steps that you need to really understand the what and the why behind email marketing.

I'm so excited. I host these trainings live one time per year and it's coming right up. So if you go to jennakutcher. com/ list, that's jennakutcher. com/ list, you can save your seat for this training. I am so excited to lead thousands of entrepreneurs through this because I have seen the power and the actual growth, and again, my email list is the number one way that I drive sales and results, and we have the receipts to prove it. And so I want to help people unlock that potential so that their precious time that they're spending in their business is going to a place that is actually tied to tangible results.

00:24:48

Andrea Marquez: If you're getting a little stressed at the idea of starting an email list or readjusting your marketing strategy, here's what Jenna has to say.

00:24:55

Jenna Kutcher: I know we use the word small business, but I just want to remind your listeners that what they're doing is anything but small. I think that it is so easy to look at people even like me who are a decade in the making and just think we blinked and this came about and it happened, but I want to remind you that the same frustrations and the same mistakes you're making and the same questions you're asking yourself, we've all been there before. And so I just want to encourage you, I just have felt so much lately.  

The entrepreneurs are the people that are changing the world and we're changing the world for our children. We're changing the world for the people who get to experience what we're creating. We're changing our beliefs in ourself and what's possible.  

And so while we might use the word small in front of your business, no matter where you're at on the journey, I just want to remind you that what you're doing is actually really big and brave and bold. I don't want you to ever forget that. Because I think that there's so much power in what we're doing, and I think we're creating this ripple effect that we often forget about. And so I just want your listeners to know that I'm cheering them on.

00:26:07

Andrea Marquez: Beautifully said Jenna. I'm glad we're ending with that because we can all use a little encouragement every now and then. Jenna did a great job of breaking down how to start and grow your email list.  

If you didn't catch all of Jenna's advice, don't worry we've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon. com/ podcasts. Reach out to us at thisismallbusiness.amazon. com to tell us what you're up to or what topics you want us to cover. And let me know what you think of the episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, it's easier if you do it through your phone. And if you liked what you heard, I hope you'll share us with anyone else who needs to hear this.  

That's it for today's episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next week, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening.  

This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.

‍

Ready to make a difference with your business but don’t know where to start? Just ask Thomas Ling, founder of Kin+Kind, who combined his passion for the environment and love of animals to create eco-friendly pet products. Thomas breaks down what makes a business sustainable, the importance of transparency and authenticity, and how you can start a business that does good in the world.

“It's important that we are running the kind of company that we want to see out in the world.” Thomas says.

Learn what it takes to be a clean business, and the benefits that come with it.In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:09) Kin+Kind’s story.

(02:56) How Kin + Kind brings transparency and authenticity into their products.

(04:11) What are clean ingredients?

(06:34) Being a clean company is about more than using good ingredients, it’s also about how you treat your employees.

(07:25) What is greenwashing?

(09:15) How to start a sustainable business.

(10:50) The benefits of having a clean business.

Key takeaways:

1 - Starting a business that has a positive impact means being transparent and authentic.  And there’s a few ways you could do that. Thomas makes sure to use the common and scientific name of the ingredients they use, get’s third-party certifications so their customers know what’s in their products, and uses responsibly sourced ingredients.

2 - Building a clean business isn’t just about ingredients; it’s also about how you treat your workers.

3 - Using high-quality ingredients can be pricey. Thomas advises new businesses to be prepared to roll your products out at a loss and focus on a small group of customers that share your values. It's going to take a lot of experimentation. So, start small and do a proof of concept, then once you see that there’s a market out there that wants what you’re selling – that’s when you might be profitable.

4 - Even though it costs a lot to start a clean business, it's worth it. Thomas says when your business is based on good values, your customers stick with you, even when times are tough. Kin+Kind kept going during the pandemic because their customers knew they cared about their pets and the environment just as much as they did.

00:00:01

Thomas Ling: So we're not just making a product because I came from a very, very unrelated space, and the switch was to do something I was passionate about and something I cared about and trying to do something that had an impact. And it's weird. How do pet products have an impact? But in the way that we interact with our products and our employees and our community is how I feel I'm having an impact and doing and putting into the world something that represents the value systems that I have.

00:00:27

Andrea Marquez: To celebrate Asian-Pacific American Heritage Month, we're highlighting an Asian and Pacific Islander-owned small business that's taking care of your furry friends while doing some good in the world.

Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and this is Small Business, the podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be digging into clean ingredients and sustainability with Thomas Ling, the owner of Kin+ Kind, a manufacturer and retailer of pet grooming and wellness that's on a mission to clean up pet care. Starting Kin+ Kind wasn't always part of Thomas's plan.

00:01:05

Thomas Ling: I went to Harvard Law School and I practiced for about a decade and I enjoyed being a lawyer. I liked doing law, but I didn't feel passionate about the type of clients that I was servicing. It wasn't moving me towards having an impact on the world.

00:01:18

Andrea Marquez: Tom has spent a lot of time doing pro bono work, and he still continues to do that on the side, but pets and the environment have always had a special place in his heart.

00:01:28

Thomas Ling: I grew up working in pet stores. There's a cute pet store down the corner that I would hang out, and finally they said, “Do you want to get paid?” I was like, “Yeah, that'd be great.” And I just had a ton of pets in my home. So I had rabbits, I had birds, I had fish, I had dogs. Just always surrounded by animals, but dogs and cats, I've always really ... Think they're part of your family.

00:01:47

Andrea Marquez: His sister Janine, who helped co-found Kin+ Kind shared his obsession with pets, and she ended up opening a pet store.

00:01:55

Thomas Ling: We actually worked at pet stores together, and so it was kind of a space that I was familiar with. She's passionate about all these things and seemed interesting and exciting. It allowed me to bring the idea of being passionate about environmental issues and trying to make a product that brought those environmental issues into the pet space. Just seemed kind of a good fit.

00:02:15

Andrea Marquez: But Janine eventually ended up leaving Kin+ Kind to start her own company.

00:02:19

Thomas Ling: And so she's like, “Thomas, your sustainability is nothing. Hold my beer.” So she went and made a company that doesn't use plastic.

00:02:29

Andrea Marquez: So this passion to help the environment and have a bigger impact clearly runs in the family. And one of the main ways that Kin+ Kind tries to do this is by bringing transparency and authenticity to their products.

00:02:41

Thomas Ling: That means using natural ingredients that are certified by the United States Department of Agricultural Inspectors under the USDA Organic Program or the USDA Bio-based program. Plus that means we make everything ourselves here in the United States.  

We're using the highest regulatory standards so that we're able to be good to our team while we're being good to the world. And the last thing that we used as kind of our pillar of transparency and authenticity is that we have made everything specifically for pets. So we had our own veterinarian and our own plant scientists pull these things together themselves to make sure that we have ingredients that are dealing with pets in a holistic, natural way that's effective and safe and good for the environment.

00:03:27

Andrea Marquez: There's a lot of responsibility behind your brand. Am I hearing a dog collar?

00:03:33

Thomas Ling: That is.

00:03:33

Andrea Marquez: That is.

00:03:35

Thomas Ling: Yes.

00:03:35

Andrea Marquez: I love that. That's so cute and super fitting for this conversation. So, Thomas, can you explain to me what clean ingredients are?

00:03:45

Thomas Ling: So that's about using things that are both responsible and transparent to the consumer, and that's really missing in the pet space. So in the pet space, there's a lot of greenwashing, there's a lot of omission because it's not that tightly regulated from a labeling perspective. So they're not required to put everything that's in their bottle into their labels. So step one is, Hey, what's in that bottle? Because pet parents are rightly concerned because they want what's best for their pets and feel very passionately about certain ingredients that are natural, that are responsibly sourced, and you need that level of clarity.

00:04:21

Andrea Marquez: This is a good time to mention that Amazon through our Climate Pledge-Friendly program is helping customers discover products with third party sustainability certifications like USDA Organic to help sellers like Kin+ kind offset some of the economic hardships of starting a sustainable business. So, Kin+ Kind does a few things to ensure that they're transparent about what's in their products. First, Thomas says that they use the common name and the scientific name for every ingredient they use.

00:04:52

Thomas Ling: So we don't use fantasy names, we don't use made up names.

00:04:55

Andrea Marquez: They also have third party certifications on their products.

00:04:58

Thomas Ling: Because inspectors come in, they audit our books, we do lab testing for our products so that there's 100% certainty that you know hat's going in or on your pet.

00:05:08

Andrea Marquez: And they use responsibly sourced ingredients.

00:05:11

Thomas Ling: We are a certified USDA organic brand because we feel very passionately that things should be grown with minimal negative impact on the earth. So if you're certified USDA organic, that means all of your ingredients are USDA organic. That means they're grown without pesticides, they're grown without GMOs, they're grown without other harmful farming practices because the United States Department of Agriculture defines what that means.  

And so people throw away that term organic. They don't really know what it means, but if it's got that organic seal on it, you are compliant with the program that the United States Department of Agriculture has put out there that makes us feel good that we're protecting the earth.  

And that makes you feel good that you're protecting your pet because you know what's in that cosmetic or in that supplement that you're putting it. And the newest category is a Pee+ Stain so you can feel good about what you putting in your home so that you know that you're not inhaling these ingredients that are just bad for you, your family, your pet.

00:06:06

Andrea Marquez: Kin+ Kind wants to be a responsible company and provide clean and transparent products to their customers. But being a clean company goes beyond this. It also includes caring for your employees.

00:06:18

Thomas Ling: So we have our own team working in our own facility. So being local obviously is good for our community, but it's also good because it's good for the employees. So our employees have healthcare benefits, they have dental benefits, they have retirement programs because this is important. It's important that we are running the kind of company that we want to see out in the world, and we're doing here is how we want to be treated, and we want other people to be treated.

00:06:44

Andrea Marquez: Thomas mentioned greenwashing when he was talking about the pet space, and if you don't know what that is ...

00:06:50

Thomas Ling: So greenwashing specifically just saying, I'm natural, and then there's nothing in your package that's natural or there's nothing in your package that's good for the environment. There's nothing other than the name of your product potentially. So there are a lot of products, particularly in the pet space that says, I'm natural or I'm clean.  

Then you look in their bottle and you're like, “There's not a single natural ingredient in here.” So it's kind of this practice. People know that there's a consumer demand for natural, and a lot of it's a lot of confusion because these terms, organic, what does that mean?  

Natural doesn't have a legal definition and they pretend that this is good for the environment or that this is good for pets, but that they have no right to that claim. Some of it can be quite difficult. That's something we should be concerned about. It's not fair to you as the consumer. It's not fair to the environment because they're putting out products that aren't good for the environment.

00:07:40

Andrea Marquez: But using high-quality ingredients that are natural or organic isn't cheap. So if you're planning on starting a business that centers around sustainability or a specific value you have, Thomas says that you have to be prepared to potentially roll your products out at a loss when you're first starting out.

00:07:58

Thomas Ling: I have a lot of experience at that. Yeah, so in terms of, hey, if I was in a kind of different space and I wanted to put my values into my business, I think it's focusing on a small segment of people who share your values and can you have a value added service in that small segment instead of trying to do something at scale, because if you try anything at scale, it takes a long time to ramp up. It takes a lot of experimentation, it takes a lot of cost before you can do that. And so kind of do a proof of concept in a small idea.

So if it's like, Hey, I want to make brownies, you're never going to make money doing it, but go ahead, make brownies, see if there's a market for it, then scale up. But you're not going to make any money in the first infinity period of time until you know okay, this is a good product, I see a path forward to profitability for it because I've done the math. So, okay, I need this equipment and I need this price tier, and I need X, Y, Z to profitability. So you have that mapped out, but you find that that there's a proof of concept that there's a market out there that wants it and responds well to it.

00:08:59

Andrea Marquez: But for Thomas, the benefits he gets from having a clean company outweigh the cons.

00:09:04

Thomas Ling: I'd rather have a smaller business that succeeds based on its values and that has customers that relate to it than a large business that just turns out things to a larger public. My products are not for everybody. I sit on pet shelves next to value brands, and that's fine. They're just a consumer might want that value because that money might mean a lot to them, or they just don't really care about my values, and that's okay. It is what it is.  

But being able to have a company that I want to go to work for every day is in of itself a value that's dissonant with kind of the idea of capitalism, that I should only produce the thing that the market wants because if I produce only the thing that the market wants, I'll only produce the highest-margin product, which isn't good for me or the other important stakeholders, the people who work with me at my company or the people I'm serving.

So there are other values other than that pure consumer choice. And then two is, yes, you can run a successful business if you find a cohort of people that you want to work with and consumers that you want to serve because they have demands and they want those demands to be met. And those demands are value-based. I'd love for that community to grow, and it is growing. We see that the natural space and the clean space are areas that have very consistently been growing more rapidly than other areas and areas that there was a shocking low level of sacrifice during harder economic periods.

So during COVID, I thought, “Oh gosh, I'm going to go out of business.” I am like, “I'm doomed. I'm doomed.” There's no way that I'll be able to stay in business when people don't know if they were going to have money in a month. And it was so scary, and it was interesting that no, actually, we grew huge leaps and bounds because people continue to think of their pets as family and the values that they were putting into the product that they're getting for their pets were important to them. So they stuck with us and we grew. And so that's great having someone that's loyal to us as a value-based business as opposed to just a commodity that's on the shelf because the next person who makes it cheaper, you buy it from them, but they didn't. They stuck through it.

00:11:12

Andrea Marquez: So aligning your business with your values, even if it makes the product a little more expensive than usual, might get you a bunch of loyal customers. I learned so much about creating a sustainable business and what it means to be a clean business. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon. com.

If you liked what you heard. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com with your thoughts.

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to You by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening.  

This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

The more people see your products, the more sales you’ll probably get – and a marketing strategy can help you do that.

Just ask Elena Fahrländer, the Chief Commercial Officer of Danish Endurance, a company that sells their products worldwide. She’ll be sharing what they do to find their target audience and how their approach to marketing changed as they grew. You’ll also hear from Elizabeth (Liz) Downing, director of partnerships at The Ecom Cooperative. She’ll give more actionable advice on how to build your marketing strategy using realistic goal setting and data analysis.

“It's really important to look inward, really examine who you are as a business, and then set your goals and your expectations based on what you think you can achieve,” says Liz, “and it all comes down to the data.”

In this episode you’ll hear:

(02:18) Danish Endurance’s story

(04:02) How to find your target audience

(07:02) The importance of clear and realistic goals and budgeting when building your marketing strategy

(11:02) Starting out with a structured marketing strategy

(11:50) How and why Danish Endurance constantly updates their marketing strategy

‍

Key Takeaways:

1 - Before you start working on your marketing strategy, you need to figure out who your ideal audience is and how to reach them. Liz says there’s a few questions you need to ask yourself: what do you have? Do people want it? And which people want it and what is the best way to reach them. Elena also adds that Danish Endurance relies on data to understand their customer journey and figure out the best way to reach them.

2 - Customer reviews are important for multiple reasons. It tells you what your customer thinks about your product. Most customers use reviews to figure out if your product is worth buying, and it's important to the algorithm -- so it helps people find your product.

3 -  Realistic expectations and goals are important – and data will help you figure out what that might look like. But even if you don’t have data yet, Liz suggests that you look at data from other businesses that are similar to what you want to do.

4 - Build a marketing budget and monitor it. Monitoring how much money you spend on marketing and how successful your campaigns are will help you figure out what works and adjust your spending accordingly.

5 - Stay dynamic. Once you create a marketing strategy, be prepared to update it. Elena says Danish endurance review their strategy on a monthly basis to maintain competitiveness.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: Marketing is an essential part of your business. And I know, I know, I feel like I say that about everything we talk about on This is Small Business, but marketing is how you get people to know you exist. And even if you have the best product on the market, it'll just collect dust if you're not putting any effort into getting the word out.

I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about how to get started on your marketing strategy, because marketing yourself isn't always easy.

00:00:37

Elizabeth Downing: Whether you're in person business, whether you're an online business, it's just really hard with the saturation of people entering the marketplace, with the saturation of all the noise out there and all the different types of new media we have, and the changing behaviors of buyers based on their age and their demographics. It's just fascinating to me. And it's always such a hero story to me when somebody manages to get the word out about their product, and a small business becomes a bigger business because of their marketing efforts.

00:01:04

Andrea Marquez: That's Elizabeth, Liz Downing, Director of Partnerships at the ECom Cooperative, a platform that provides free resources to eCommerce businesses.

00:01:13

Elizabeth Downing: I got interested in marketing early in my career, I did promotional marketing for a while. And then I did so much freelance writing, and that was obviously to support people's marketing efforts. And when I started working at ECom Engine, we started working with all different types of sellers, people who had been on the marketplace since it opened, people who were just entering the marketplace. And I just found it fascinating.

00:01:36

Andrea Marquez: Liz says that she was always interested in marketing, mainly because of the psychology behind it.

00:01:42

Elizabeth Downing: I was always more entertained by commercials than other kids were, because I thought it was really interesting the way different products positioned themselves, different companies positioned themselves. And I just think that the marriage of small business and marketing strategy is my favorite thing to think about and my favorite thing to talk about.

00:02:01

Andrea Marquez: Liz has a lot of marketing advice that she'll share with us throughout the episode, but first, let's hear from a company that succeeded in getting its products in front of as many eyes as possible.

00:02:12

Elena Fahrländer: So DANISH ENDURANCE was founded in 2015 in Denmark by two Brothers. So it's a family business, and the brand is rooted in the belief that physical and mental balance forces personal endurance. So therefore, DANISH ENDURANCE, our brand, aims to inspire greater happiness through quality sports and casual wear. So it's really products for everyone, I would say.

00:02:37

Andrea Marquez: That's Elena, the chief commercial officer of DANISH ENDURANCE.

00:02:41

Elena Fahrländer: I oversee the sales operations across various third party platforms and marketplaces at DANISH ENDURANCE, and over the past six years I've witnessed the company's evolution from really a startup to a more established brand. It's been an exciting journey, contributing to the growth of our brand from just about four products when I started to now plus 100.

00:03:09

Andrea Marquez: DANISH ENDURANCE started because Nicolaj, the CEO, couldn't find high quality and affordable compression socks when he was training for a marathon.

00:03:17

Elena Fahrländer: So he thought, if you want something done right, you need to do it yourself. So he did. And then we entered into many other clothing categories, such as underwear for men and women, headwear base layers, and everything is with a very clean, Danish design and a sustainable twist.

00:03:37

Andrea Marquez: And they're selling these products all over the world, so clearly they know a bit about how to get their products seen by their customers. But before you start thinking of how to reach your customers, Liz says that first you need to know who your target audience is, which is a lot easier said than done.

00:03:56

Elizabeth Downing: As you get started with a small business in general, obviously you're going to want to take the temperature of the world out there and find out what the demand is for whatever it is that you're selling. So step one is what do you have? Step two is do people want it? And then step three is which people want it, and how is the best way to reach them? But there are things that you need to think about as you ramp up and you get started with that before you can even actually start marketing.

So it is a real chicken and egg situation, in that you have to have a pretty good idea of who's going to want what you're selling out there. But in terms of how you reach them, there are lots of steps to take, including what your competitors are doing, identifying what channels are successful for your competitors. That's probably the easiest hack, is look at who you're going to compete with and how they're doing it, and then figure out how you can do it better.

00:04:52

Andrea Marquez: Elena says that DANISH ENDURANCE is constantly using data to understand who their target audience is and how to best reach them.

00:04:59

Elena Fahrländer: We regularly request customer segmentation data, then we can use that to customize our imagery and our campaign content, such as headlines of the campaigns and so on. So it really tracks the very first touch point of the customer and lets us see where exactly the customer converts then in the end, how many touch points the customers had until the purchase happens so that we can see that all the different campaign types that they all play into, basically in the end, convincing the customer to buy our products.

00:05:31

Andrea Marquez: Understanding the user journey to your products is helpful, and looking at your reviews is another way to know more about what your customer wants.

00:05:39

Elizabeth Downing: Customer reviews are important, because it is the social proof behind the success of your product and how good your product is, but it plays into the search algorithm and it plays into how often you win with your advertising. It's a metric that's really important and really to get, because what we used to say is, “Happy customers don't leave reviews.” And for every bad review you get, you need to get a lot of good reviews to make up for it because that average star rating is really important.

00:06:10

Andrea Marquez: So reviews are important for multiple reasons. First, it tells you what your customer thinks about your product. It's how most customers decide on whether they'll be buying your product or not. And it's important to the algorithm, so it helps people find your product. Now, let's dig into how to set up your marketing strategy. One of the most important things you need to do is make sure you set clear goals and have realistic expectations.

00:06:38

Elizabeth Downing: So if you're launching, then you have an expectation for your launch and an expectation of the marketing you do around your launch. And then once you get into growth, then you're going to have a growth expectation. But you have to be realistic, so it's really important to look inward, really examine who you are as a business, and then set your goals and your expectations based on what you think you can achieve. And it all comes down to the data. So even if you don't have any data because you haven't done anything yet, you can look at the data from other people who have done what you're trying to do and you can get an idea of what your category is going to do.

00:07:16

Andrea Marquez: And of course, another important part of your marketing strategy is your budget.

00:07:21

Elizabeth Downing: So you'll have a marketing budget that you can allocate according to your goals. You can figure out which channels are going to be higher impact for you based on what your competitors are doing, based on what complimentary services are doing. You have to really geek out on it. You have to really get your data, set your expectations, set your goals, and then start small and execute from there. And if you do that, it's easier to avoid mistakes. But if you go in with unrealistic expectations, you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage.

00:07:58

Andrea Marquez: When you're starting a business, money is always top of mind. And even though marketing isn't always cheap, there are ways to market your business and build brand awareness without breaking the bank.

00:08:09

Elizabeth Downing: So I think that what a lot of businesses do, and I think it's a good idea, is to get your product to some people and get some feedback on that. Because you don't want to put your product someplace and then all of a sudden have to change something about your product.  

So first, get it out there, get some feedback on it, and then you can develop your launch strategy and you can figure out which marketing channels are going to work best for you. And then conservatively using the social space, using whatever virality you can achieve is a good way to get your brand name out there without spending a whole ton of money right at first.

00:08:49

Andrea Marquez: We have a whole episode that's dedicated to social media and virality. It's episode 45 of This is Small Business, and it's filled with tips on how to go viral, what to do if you go viral, and how to create content for your brand on social media.

Let's say you've already set aside a budget for your marketing strategy and are now spending that money. Now, you'll need to make sure to monitor the data that's coming from your marketing efforts so you know what's actually bringing in customers. And keeping an eye on the data will also help you know what to stop spending money on.

00:09:19

Elena Fahrländer: I think at the very beginning when we started up our brand, we invested a lot. And we didn't have a lot of data transparency in the first few years, I would say. And now our company has adopted a very data-centric approach, it's one of our core values at DANISH ENDURANCE. And we really monitor different marketing KPIs so we know exactly how much we're spending on marketing every day. We have a few always-on campaigns that are very targeted towards different audiences and also our best-selling products mostly, but then we also make sure that we budget a bit of money to test some new initiatives. For these, we really oversee them very closely to make sure that we are not overspending on that.

00:10:04

Andrea Marquez: But before you experiment with different strategies.

00:10:07

Elena Fahrländer: I would really recommend everyone to start with a very structured marketing campaign account from the very beginning and roll that out then to the other locales that are opening up, or also new products that you're launching. And get full transparency into your product profitability from day one, because that's just so important that you know how much marketing money you can spend and what your margins allow you to spend. And then you can take very conscious choices about maybe selling at an unprofitable level for some time to gain market share. But I think the most important is that the choice is conscious on that.

00:10:42

Andrea Marquez: And once you create a marketing strategy, be prepared to constantly be updating it.

00:10:48

Elena Fahrländer: We create an annual budget for each market and for the company as a whole, and that's when we establish our overarching strategy. So our marketing strategy is very much aligned with our annual budget. But then we need to stay dynamic, so we conduct regular monthly reviews as well. We have some market trends, competitor activities that we need to monitor and that we need to adjust to. So it doesn't make sense to just create one annual strategy in January and never adjust. So I would say we go over that on a monthly basis, that ensures that we stay competitive in our marketing activities. And on top of that, there's always some new campaign types that are launching and that we need to test, and then roll out if the test proves successful.

00:11:37

Andrea Marquez: So to sum it all up.

00:11:39

Elizabeth Downing: You're going to want to set your goals and expectations. You're going to want to allocate a marketing budget. You're going to want to explore your most cost-effective channels that will have the highest impact. You don't have to do this alone, small business owner. You've got resources out there and people who really, really want you to succeed. Take advantage of that, because that's something that not every industry has that the e-commerce industry does have, is a ton of support and a whole lot of love.

00:12:06

Andrea Marquez: I totally agree. I definitely see that support and love in all the people I've talked to on This is Small Business. I learned a lot of important information about marketing from Elena and Liz. One thing that stuck out to me is that data is key to figuring out your marketing strategy. And if you're just starting out and don't have any data yet, you can always look at data from similar businesses. If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.  

If you enjoyed this episode or found any of the tips helpful, make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And please, please, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps other people find the show.  

Plus, I love hearing your thoughts on the episode and how you'll be using this information in your business. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur, or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy. Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www.smallbusiness.amazon.  

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego , and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.

Your small business (or idea if you haven’t started yet) is a lot more important than you think. Just ask Karen Kerrigan, the president and CEO of the Small Business & Entrepreneurship Council. She’ll be sharing a ton of fun facts about how small businesses drive innovation, help the economy, and create jobs. You’ll also hear from Kylie Jiwon Hwang, an Assistant Professor at the Northwestern University Kellogg School of Management. She’ll give us more insights on how entrepreneurship can help marginalized individuals and how starting your own business can benefit your community.Get a quick refresher on why the work you’re doing (or planning to do!) is important and learn all the benefits and challenges you might encounter on your entrepreneurial journey.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:42) Why Small Businesses are important.

(04:27) Why Marginalized individuals are gravitating towards entrepreneurship and the benefits that come with it.

(07:33) Challenges that you might face when starting a business.

(10:48) How technology has been helping small business owners overcome some of the challenges they face.

(14:41) The importance of being prepared before starting a business.

Key Takeaways:

1 -  Small businesses create jobs. According to the SBA, small businesses in the US generated 1.5 million jobs and 64% of new jobs.

2 - Small businesses drive innovation which makes the economy more vibrant. Karen says that 80 to 90 percent of patents are filed by small businesses so entrepreneurs are at the forefront of innovation.

3 - Entrepreneurship provides opportunities for marginalized individuals to find jobs and achieve financial independence and success.

4 - It’s important to be aware of the challenges that you might face before getting into entrepreneurship so you’re better prepared to handle them. Some of these challenges may be inflation, and limited access to capital, funding, and the social networks you might need to help you succeed.

5 - Getting training is important. We’ve talked about how you’ll learn as you go in other episodes of This is Small Business, but it is important to know what you’re getting into to increase your chances of success. Karen mentioned that a lack of training or preparation is the reason why some businesses fail.

6 - Utilize technology. Karen says that technology has helped lower the cost of entry to entrepreneurship. You can use technology to find customers, advertise affordably, and even launch your business online on your own.

00:00:00

Andrea Marquez: We are constantly hearing that small businesses are important. They contribute so much to the economy and they give people jobs. It's why I love working on this podcast. I get to elevate their stories and give you tips and key lessons on how to start, build and grow your business. We've covered a lot on how to get into entrepreneurship, but we barely scratched the surface on why you should do it, and since sometimes it can feel like you don't have access to the same resources as other people, is it really a good idea to start a business?

Hi, I am Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be digging into the importance of small business, some of the challenges to expect and how to navigate them. So whether you're already starting a business and need a quick refresher on why the work you're doing is important, or if you're considering starting one but feel like the odds are stacked against you, then this episode is for you. But first, let's start with the basics. What is entrepreneurship?

00:01:14

Kylie Hwang: I define it as a labor market status, which is distinct from paid employment. So working for an employer, which essentially means that it's individuals who start their own businesses, and I think it will include small businesses, even businesses that aren't incorporated or don't have employees. So it's a pretty broad definition that I think about.

00:01:32

Andrea Marquez: That's Kylie Hwang, an Assistant Professor at the Northwestern University, Kellogg School of Management. Kylie says that entrepreneurship is important in many different ways. The first is job creation.

00:01:45

Kylie Hwang: So according to the Small Business Administration, small businesses actually generated 1. 5 million jobs and account for around 64% of new jobs in the US.

00:01:54

Andrea Marquez: And they don't just stop at providing jobs. Karen Kerrigan, the President and CEO of the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council says that most small business owners also like to focus on providing quality work life to their employees.

00:02:10

Karen Kerrigan: They want to pay them well, they want to provide them with healthcare. They want to provide them with the best benefits that they can to retain their workers. Sometimes it's just very, very difficult, costly and expensive. That's why we're working on solutions to bring down the cost of healthcare and other benefits and making it much easier for these employers to provide the benefits that their employees deserve.

00:02:34

Andrea Marquez: When thinking about entrepreneurship, the word innovation also comes up. Karen says that 80% to 90% of patents are actually filed by small businesses.

00:02:44

Karen Kerrigan: When you look at the innovation and the competition and all the vibrancy, it is coming from individual entrepreneurs who have these great dreams and they're taking them to the marketplace.

00:02:55

Andrea Marquez: This is something that Kylie also points out.

00:02:58

Kylie Hwang: Entrepreneurial firms, and you're probably thinking about your typical Silicon Valley type of tech startups, have been really at the forefront of innovation and technological developments. They're the ones doing creative destruction. So that's also been a reason why entrepreneurship has been seen as so important to the economy and the society in general.

00:03:17

Andrea Marquez: And that leads us to another point, economic growth.

00:03:21

Karen Kerrigan: When you look at every sector of our economy, whether it's technology, agriculture, manufacturing, biopharmaceutical, energy, retail, it's all dominated by small businesses and the entrepreneurs behind those firms that are really helping to make our economy more vibrant and more competitive and viable.

00:03:41

Andrea Marquez: Kylie says that there's one more reason why entrepreneurship is important.

00:03:45

Kylie Hwang: Entrepreneurship in small businesses really provides opportunities for marginalized group members to actually find jobs and gain employment that would otherwise not have been possible for them and actually work and achieve financial success and independence.

00:04:03

Andrea Marquez: I'm really excited to dig into that. We've talked about this on previous episodes of This is Small Business, but when you see people who look like you succeed in something you want to achieve, like starting a business, it makes it seem more achievable. And Kylie says that marginalized individuals are increasingly becoming entrepreneurs because of two reasons. The first is because the barrier to entry is low.

00:04:27

Kylie Hwang: There are a lot of platforms that provide ways to become an entrepreneur more easily, a lot of online things that you could do, for example. So that's making marginalized individuals more likely to become entrepreneurs because it just lowers the barrier to go into entrepreneurship, compared to the old ages where you actually had to have more financial capital, social capital, et cetera.

00:04:48

Andrea Marquez: And the second reason is because becoming an entrepreneur is sometimes easier than finding a job.

00:04:54

Kylie Hwang: I think this can be generalized to a lot of populations. So research has found that immigrants or racial minorities or even mothers who face the motherhood penalty are more likely to become entrepreneurs because they find that traditional employment is hard to get or because the jobs that they get aren't satisfactory in a certain way.

00:05:14

Andrea Marquez: Kylie has done a lot of research on this. She mainly looks at how and why formerly incarcerated individuals become entrepreneurs.

00:05:22

Kylie Hwang: And the main reason behind this, there could be other reasons that are going on as well, but the main reason is really that it's difficult for them to find work. So they're going into entrepreneurship as an alternative way to overcome this discrimination that they face in the labor market.

00:05:36

Andrea Marquez: But it's not just formerly incarcerated individuals who turn to entrepreneurship to overcome discrimination.

00:05:42

Kylie Hwang: Other cases, which I mentioned like the motherhood penalty, recent research, which I haven't done myself, so I can't really speak to that research, but they've found that mothers who are more likely to face penalties, for example, in countries that have more biases towards women, they're more likely to engage in entrepreneurship as almost a plan B to employment. So I think, and this generalizes to immigrants and other marginalized populations. So it does seem to be that entrepreneurship is many times the route that people tap on when it's very difficult for them to find traditional work.

00:06:16

Andrea Marquez: And these entrepreneurs could end up benefiting their communities as well.

00:06:20

Kylie Hwang: So some of them were specifically working on products or services that were serving their communities or their local communities, and they also had some initiative going on within the company that was something about having more social impact. So I think that beyond job creation or beyond helping the focal individual who's the entrepreneur, there seems to be this spillover effect from having these marginalized group entrepreneurs who may be more likely to be open to hiring others and also being more socially impactful in their businesses as well.

00:06:56

Andrea Marquez: Okay, so clearly there's a lot of benefits to entrepreneurship. You get to create job opportunities for yourself and for your community, and you help the economy grow. And it doesn't hurt that it's becoming a lot easier to start a business because of all the resources out there. But if you want to get into entrepreneurship, it's also important to be aware of the challenges you might face so you're prepared to face them. Karen says that an ongoing challenge that a lot of small business owners face is inflation.

00:07:23

Karen Kerrigan: Many have not kept pace with inflation. So inflation was a very big concern of business owners over the last year or more. And hand in hand to that is just economic uncertainty. What is going to be happening in the economy? Is there going to be a recession? Is there going to be an economic slowdown or not? That uncertainty really affects confidence and their willingness to invest in their businesses.

00:07:48

Andrea Marquez: Karen also says that recently, a lot of small business owners have been struggling to find the labor they need to operate smoothly.

00:07:54

Karen Kerrigan: I think in our last survey, our small business checkup survey that we did, and business owners say the lack of skilled labor or labor was affecting their operating capacity.

00:08:05

Andrea Marquez: Another challenge is getting access to capital or finding funding.

00:08:08

Karen Kerrigan: And that is one of the other issues that has really been an increasing pain point for small business owners, particularly during the last year as interest rates were rising. So with higher interest rates, the cost of capital goes higher and makes it much more difficult for business owners to access the credit and the capital that they need to invest in their businesses, to scale their businesses, to operate their businesses.

00:08:35

Andrea Marquez: Another challenge that Kylie says could affect entrepreneurs is access to social networks.

00:08:40

Kylie Hwang: They lack the social networks to gain financial capital, gain ideas, et cetera, that are really important to be successful as an entrepreneur. So I think for this, and also connectedly, they also lack the human capital to actually found and succeed in a business, which can be really little things like general business knowledge, like bookkeeping, how to incorporate your company. But these things are things that they also lack in human capital, which also hinder them from being successful in founding or even after founding, that they are more likely to exit out because they were unsuccessful. So I think for social capital or human capital, I think things that could be done is that increases in perhaps training or incubators.

00:09:24

Andrea Marquez: Getting proper training is important for anyone who's trying to start a business. Karen says that a lack of preparation and training before jumping into entrepreneurship is the reason why some businesses fail.

00:09:35

Karen Kerrigan: Going into that endeavor with as much information as possible in order to succeed. So really, lack of preparation, lack of education, and I don't mean education in terms of college degree or a master's. I'm just saying educating yourself, right? Accessing the type of training and the skills that you need, financial management particularly, to grow that business.

00:09:59

Andrea Marquez: But Karen also says that small business owners have also been turning to technology to find solutions.

00:10:04

Karen Kerrigan: So we've seen small businesses really embracing technology. In fact, artificial intelligence, AI. It's really the fastest that I've ever seen small businesses embrace any type of technology. AI has just been extraordinary in what it has meant for many small businesses in terms of resolving some of these challenges that we just talked about.  

There's been technology and tools that have come along to support entrepreneurs in their dreams, and the risk has become far less because of that technology and the barriers to entry and the costs have been greatly lowered because of technology, being able to find customers quicker, being able to advertise them more affordably, being able to launch the business without having to have a storefront or a brick and mortar, being able to do it on your own or with independent contractors.

So again, technology really has been an enabler of entrepreneurship, which given the reasons why people start businesses, has pushed them and encouraged them and allowed them to pursue these dreams.

00:11:12

Andrea Marquez: The digitization was really accelerated because of the pandemic. The pandemic also had other effects on small businesses.

00:11:21

Karen Kerrigan: In 2020, there was a massive boost in individuals that filed business applications. A lot happened during the pandemic that is driving this interest in starting businesses. Obviously digitization, people wanting more flexibility. There's more opportunity in the economy. There's been disruption in business models. Obviously the different types of technology that are coming online now, AI, AR, VR, they're all driving new business models and driving new entrepreneurship. So there's been a massive increase in people that are interested in starting businesses, and the business models has shifted as well. It's really an exciting time to be a business owner.

00:12:05

Andrea Marquez: So one of the things that I end up talking to a lot of entrepreneurs on the show is the drive behind wanting to do this because it's risky, but there's also a reward, right? So in your words, why do you think people should do it?

00:12:20

Karen Kerrigan: We've asked startup entrepreneurs this question over time, and for many, it's they want to be their own boss. The number one reason why most people start businesses is they want to be their own boss. They want control over their time. They do like the flexibility, particularly for many women entrepreneurs, they like that flexibility. That doesn't mean that they're working less. They might be working at 2:00 in the morning as opposed to three o'clock in the afternoon, but having that flexibility is very important. And then for many, they believe there's an opportunity in the marketplace and they can fill a need. They have a solution. They found a niche, and they're very passionate about that and wanting to make it happen.

00:13:09

Andrea Marquez: So if you've been considering starting a business...

00:13:11

Karen Kerrigan: I would say do it, but go into it with preparation, with the right information, with a sounding board. It could be friends, it could be family, it could be people who've started businesses themselves to check your ideas, help you check those ideas against market realities, really do your homework. And there's people that are out there that are willing to help you. The local business owner, local entrepreneurs, people online, organizations that have mentoring programs. You don't have to do this alone, and you shouldn't do it alone. Do it prepared and knowledgeable and knowing that it's going to be a grind, but also knowing that when you succeed, it's going to be well worth the risk and well worth the time and worth everything that you put into it.

00:13:58

Andrea Marquez: So being prepared and aware of the risks before you start a business is key.

00:14:02

Kylie Hwang: So I think for our marginalized group members who are seeking entrepreneurship, I do think that they have to spend some time to think really about what the business that they can actually be successful is, not just follow the crowd of who's going into entrepreneurship. And also seek out. I think there actually is a lot of non-profits and also policy help for marginalized group members these days. So I think they have to extend their networks to think more about how to get help specifically from non-profits that target marginalized entrepreneurs and try to go in with a bit more knowledge.

00:14:38

Andrea Marquez: I think that's an important piece of advice to end on regardless of your background, because a lot of the time, I think we romanticize entrepreneurship. And even though you do learn as you go, it's important to know what you're getting yourself into.

We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.  

That's it for today's episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Reach out to us at thisismallbusiness.amazon.com to tell us what you're up to, or let me know what you think of this episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. And if you liked what you heard, I hope you'll share us with anyone else who needs to hear this. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy. Take the free Self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www. smallbusiness. amazon.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Aside from a regular paycheck, what more can you do for your employees? And can going the extra mile for them really help your business' bottom line? Listen in to hear from brothers and founders of Mr. Tortilla, Ron and Anthony Alcazar. Their approach to business was formed at an early age, while watching their parents work hard with no buy-in. And then we’ll speak with Ludmila Praslova, PhD. Professor of Industrial Organizational Psychology, and author of The Canary Code: A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity, and Intersectional Belonging at Work. "Imagine having to walk in shoes that are extremely big or way too small, way too wide, way too narrow," said Ludmila. "That's painful, that's not comfortable, …flexibility just makes sense."

In this episode you’ll hear:

(00:43) Why Mr. Tortilla wanted to take care of their employees

(03:26) How it’s good for business to prioritize a healthy workplace

(04:58) The bare minimum an employer could do for its employee

(06:40) The importance of flexibility and how to implement it into your company

(12:18) How to start a conversation with your employee about their needs

Key Takeaways

1 - There’s a business case for treating your employees well. Feeling safe, accepted, and valued is a part of our core psychological well-being. When employees don’t feel this way they can’t do their best work because they’ll waste  their mental resources on negative feelings. Plus, good morale leads to less turnover.

2 - An employer owes their employees a bare minimum of fair treatment, and financial safety.

3 - A flexible work environment allows employees to work when they’re at their most predictive in a way that works for them. This doesn’t have to come at any cost to the employer and can lead to a healthier life for the worker.

4 - Talk to your employees about what constrains their productivity. Putting up barriers, simply because that’s how things are done unnecessarily makes life hard for some employees who don’t fit the mold.  

5 - Normalize an intake form that asks questions about preferences and needs. This builds trust, which makes for better workplaces.

00:00:03

Andrea Marquez: I've heard so often on This is Small Business that connecting with people is a massive part of running a small business. There are customers, suppliers, lenders, the list goes on, but an absolutely integral item on that list is employees. What can you and what should you do for them beyond some of the basic expectations? How do you keep your workplace flexible enough to ensure you're attracting the best people, then enabling them to do their best work.  

I'm Andrea Marquez and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about how small business owners can create a healthy work culture for their employees. My first guest learned about that at an early age.

00:00:51

Anthony Alcazar: We saw how hard my parents worked their whole lives and they really didn't have much to show for it. They'd dedicated their lives to companies that they helped grow, and at the end of the day, it was just a job and dead edge and that's it.

00:01:03

Andrea Marquez: That's Anthony Alcazar. He and his brother Ron are the founders of Mr. Tortilla, a low-carb tortilla they created in a quest to make Mexican food healthier.

00:01:14

Anthony Alcazar: When me and Ron decided to talk about this business he said, “Listen, let's start a business where we make sure we take care of our employees that can grow with us and are with us and the company grows, they're taken care of.”

00:01:24

Andrea Marquez: So 10% of Mr. Tortilla's net profits go toward employee profit sharing, on top of sharing the wealth. They also wanted their approximately 40 employees to like going to work.

00:01:36

Anthony Alcazar: We said, “When we have our own factory, we want to make sure that the culture is right, that people love to come to work, that people get along, that no bullying happens, and there's just this work environment that people love.” That was super important for us.

00:01:48

Andrea Marquez: It was important to the brothers to differentiate themselves by having a higher quality product. They knew one of the best ways to do that was by having a higher quality workplace. Creating a culture of caring is integral to Mr. Tortilla's brand. It's a simple concept of being nice to their employees, but according to Ludmila Praslova, it goes a lot deeper than that.

00:02:10

Ludmila Praslova: I usually come to it from a human centric perspective where there is an absolute value in affirming the dignity of every human. But I realize that for many people it's also important to understand the business case perspective. From that perspective, when people are felt valued, when we experience the sense of belonging, we are well. It's a core of our psychological wellbeing to feel like we are with people where we can feel safe, accepted and valued. Otherwise, our mental resources are going to be consumed by anxiety, insecurity, looking behind our back, expecting the knife, and we're not going to be our best selves. We're not going to be performing at our best.

00:03:02

Andrea Marquez: Ludmila is a professor of industrial organizational psychology whose work really zeroes in on diversity and inclusion. She's written a book called The Canary Code, A Guide to Neurodiversity, Dignity and Intersectional Belonging at Work. Ludmila, can you tell me a little bit more about the financial benefits of prioritizing a healthy work culture?

00:03:25

Ludmila Praslova: If you have good morale in your organization, if you have employee loyalty, if employees stay, there's a tremendous cost just on notating turnover heading to rehire, retrain, which is extremely expansive. When people work on their best, they are significantly more productive. People who feel like they had input in developing what they do, they are heard, they're valued, also performed significantly better than people who feel like they're cogs in the machine, who have no control and no input into what is going on. When you add this together, it's a multiplication effect of treating people right on human productivity and human involvement. That's even before we get into things like organizational reputation and the word of mouth.

00:04:30

Andrea Marquez: It's true. Customers are more and more concerned about where their products come from, how they're made, and under what conditions the employees are working. That's also the case for prospective employees. It's common to do a bit of digging about the culture, not just around the job you'll be doing. Beyond making people feel valued and heard, what is the minimum responsibility you think that an employer has to an employee?

00:04:52

Ludmila Praslova: There is a bare minimum of social safety where you are treated properly, psychological safety, where you feel like you can participate, and financial safety. As a bare minimum, I think people need to get out of their jobs a life that doesn't hurt. That, unfortunately, doesn't always happen, but life that doesn't hurt means satisfaction of basic needs, appropriate levels of food and housing that doesn't cause suffering. Now, inspiring life is beyond that. When you want people to really be on their best, not just not suffering, but thriving, you really want to be able to give people ability to travel, have vacations, have sabbaticals, time for their creativity, time, and a little bit of financial cushion where they are building their future, where they're feeling confident about their future.

00:05:56

Andrea Marquez: As a creative myself, one of the things I value the most in wherever I'm working is a flexibility to be able to do my job and do it very well, but also have the time to have a life and pursue my career interests. I think even outside of work, those feed the work that I'm doing anyways. It's all interconnected and it allows my mind to be a little more at peace and I'm a little more happy. That's what flexibility and creativity does for me. Why it's important to me. Why do you think it's important to organizations on a larger scale?

00:06:29

Ludmila Praslova: Well, absolutely. Imagine having to walk in shoes that are extremely big or way too small, way too wide, way too narrow. That's painful, that's not comfortable, right? Why would we force someone to work in ways that hurt them and doesn't allow them to perform their best? Flexibility just makes sense.

00:06:57

Andrea Marquez: What does that look like?

00:06:59

Ludmila Praslova: Some people work best in 25 minutes, little break, 25 minutes, another little break, the Pomodoro way, for example. Other people need three to four hours of uninterrupted time to concentrate and be on their best. Why would you force someone into someone else's working reason? It's just like forcing someone to wear shoes that are completely nowhere close and expect them to perform well and run a marathon and win. They're not going to win if they're not supported in working in a way that supports them in their best. Doing work that is aligned with who we are, being able to maybe creatively tailor our responsibilities for job crafting and having flexibility in our schedule and where we work, not because it's a win, but because it actually makes us work better.

00:08:04

Andrea Marquez: If we're talking to a small business owner who's like, “Great, I'm on board. I want to do this.” How do they implement this into their small business?

00:08:13

Ludmila Praslova: It is going to depend on what your business goals are, what kind of skills you want. A more general answer is think about what you are trying to define your own business goals and then be open to more than one way that people can help you achieve that goal. Because sometimes we're stuck in this assumption that this is how I work and this is the only way to work. Just openness to the fact that there are many ways to get from point A to point B, and different people work best in different ways. That's a very good starting point. Then brainstorm with your people. You hired someone, maybe you just have one part-time employee, talk to that person. How can you bring out the best and what will help them to achieve? How can we just remove artificial constraints on their productivity? When you have your second and third employees talk to them what will help them to be on their best.

00:09:26

Andrea Marquez: Artificial constraints, that's such a great way of putting it. It's so important to reassess how we do things and wh. y Anthony Alcazar talks here about how they reassessed their hiring practices.

00:09:38

Anthony Alcazar: I knew what equal opportunity employment was, but I never really felt it. When I started going into retailers, different stores, I saw what equal opportunity employment meant, everybody. I saw adults with special needs be employed and how happy they were to work. I got the chance to get to know them and I told Ron, “This is what we have to do. We want to do this.” They're part of our team, a core part of our team. They do exceptionally well. They just needed an opportunity and they've excelled.

00:10:05

Andrea Marquez: That's a win-win situation and Ludmila expands on it.

00:10:09

Ludmila Praslova: Why would you leave out a huge percent of the population and a huge talent pool? Not hiring people who have some kind of difference doesn't make sense because most organizations accommodate the needs of parents without any kind of issues. Working students have needs and most organizations say, “Okay, we'll accommodate your schedule.” Just think about it as how do we enable their best performance. Then you stop thinking about, let's say, accommodations is something special that you do for people, but you are simply enabling humans to do their best work. Just like you allow parents to pick up their kids or students to take their tests.

I think we need a little bit of mindset adjustment. If you need to have quiet place to work because you need to concentrate, it just makes sense because you're going to do your best work. If someone needs instructions in writing and that is going to help them perform their best, why not? It's just a performance enabler. That's what those people understand and that's what allows them to create winning and high performing organizations.

00:11:28

Andrea Marquez: How do you go about having that conversation around what an employee needs? Do you start with the new hires or is it during the application process? What's the best way to do it?

00:11:37

Ludmila Praslova: If you have flexibility in onboarding and do you also get to know your people and to say, “How do you work best? Do you need a long period of time to concentrate or do you work in short spurts of time?” Really make a default across all people who work for you without singling anyone out. That is something that normalizes human differences and allows everyone to work on their best. You can build trust by allowing everyone to say, “Okay, this is what I need to perform on my best,” without even requiring them to disclose. Then if you build that trust, people might be much more comfortable also bringing those specific needs and differences to the manager's attention.

00:12:28

Andrea Marquez: Trust is always so integral, and Ron and Anthony showed us how to put all of that into action because if there's one thing I learned today, it's that healthy workplaces can often happen through minor adjustments.

00:12:40

Anthony Alcazar: One important thing is that we always have raffles every other week, and so we have prizes we give to our employees. We have a weekly meal where we vote, “You guys want pupusas? Do you guys want mole,” and we'll bring in for the employees.

00:12:52

Andrea Marquez: I love that. Who doesn't want some mole or pupusas? That was a lot of great information, so much to take in at one time, but don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.

I hate to blow on our own horn, but we've had some great reviews come in lately and I wanted to share this one with you, Josh949 of somewhere in the great US of A wrote, “I love the podcast format. It tells small business stories while focusing on a main business topic. Andrea also does a great job summarizing the key takeaways at the end.” Thank you so much, Josh949. I really do appreciate it. I'd love to hear what you think. Please make sure to leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com.  

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to You by Amazon. Make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, Hasta luego and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Dealing with audits doesn’t have to be scary as long as you’re prepared for it. Just ask Erick O. Bell, an accounting professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley, who used to work at KPMG LLP in the Audit Risk Advisory Services. Erick simplifies everything you need to know about audits – even the IRS audit – so it doesn’t feel as daunting. “Most audits that are happening. They're not audits that are at odds with each other,” Erick says. “A typical audit generally is just, you've made an assertion. Can we verify that that assertion is accurate?”

Learn about typical audits, how to navigate them, and when you might need them.In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:00) When should you get an audit.

(03:45) About IRS audits.

(07:36) How to navigate a typical audit.

Takeaways:

1 - If you’re just starting out, you won’t need an audit anytime soon. You only need an audit when you’re asking for a huge loan or trying to get investors. And if you’re trying to get a smaller loan and your bank asks you for an audit, Erick says that you can let them know that you don’t want to take on the cost of an Audit. Instead, ask if you can provide them with the financial documents they need – they’ll usually agree to that.

2 - An IRS Audit is a little scarier than a typical audit, here’s how to navigate it: Make sure to be responsive and hire a tax attorney to help you out. Usually an IRS audit will be a series of questions about some of your finances and you need to respond with receipts.

3 - Here’s what you can do so your typical audit goes smoothly: first, make sure to be organized. You can hire an accountant or bookkeeper to help you with that. Second, be honest. Auditors aren’t out to get you. They’re just there to help you understand the accounting rules. Third, know some key audit terms, so you’re more familiar with what’s going on. And fourth, be nice to your auditors.

00:00:01

Erick O. Bell: Really what an audit is is someone testing the work that someone else has done. So for example, take financial statements. Management is proclaiming that these financial statements are accurate and so the auditor's job is just to go in and make sure that that assertion that management has made is correct. At its simple form, that's what an audit is.

00:00:21

Andrea Marquez: Audits can sometimes be associated with fear and it's a scary process to go through for some businesses. And if you're starting your own business, you might be wondering if you should even get an audit and what that process looks like. I'm Andrea Marquez and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today, we'll be digging into some things you need to know about audits with Erick O. Bell, an accounting professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley and an active certified public accountant. And yes, we'll touch on the scary IRS audits too.

00:00:54

Erick O. Bell: Most small businesses should not need an audit. And so a lot of times, small businesses will come to me and they'd say, “We're interested in getting a loan and the bank says that we need to have an audit done. Can you do an audit of our financial statements?” And my response is, “No, I won't. I don't think that's what the bank really means when they say they need an audit done.”

00:01:17

Andrea Marquez: Before getting into academia full-time, Erick worked at multiple auditing companies. And now, in addition to teaching, he also runs an accounting firm where he does accounting and bookkeeping services for small businesses.

00:01:30

Erick O. Bell: And I just think as a business owner, you push back on that and say, “We don't want to incur the cost of having two years of audited financial statements. What information on our financial statements are you most interested in and can we have an independent accountant come in and give an opinion on our assertion of either how much revenue we've earned over the last two years, our statement of cashflow over the last two years?” And so it would be much less in scope than an audit.

00:02:01

Andrea Marquez: Erick's referring to an audit that's done in accordance with the American Institute of Certified Public Accountant standards or AICPA standards. These audits can be pretty expensive, so it's great to hear that banks can be open to other ways to approve your loan. If you're a small business, you might not need an audit anytime soon if you're just starting out. But if you're planning on growing your business, then you might want to be prepared just in case.

00:02:26

Erick O. Bell: Once I'd say you've crossed maybe 5 million in revenues and now you're looking to get outside investors, you're looking to get multimillion dollar loans, it's at that point when you should be looking at hiring a auditor. And an auditor is an independent accountant and so these types of businesses will have their own accountants who's doing the work on a monthly, weekly basis. And then once a year or several times throughout the year, they will have a second set of accountants. The independent accountants come in and say, “Let's give an opinion on the work that's been done. Has it been done accurately?”

00:03:04

Andrea Marquez: So if you're trying to get an investor to grow your business or you're applying for a multimillion dollar loan, we'll dig into what the process looks like and how to do it. But first, let's talk about another type of audit, the IRS audit.

00:03:15

Erick O. Bell: An IRS audit is very scary and it happens very rarely. And so when the IRS is auditing companies, they're auditing their tax return. And the whole purpose of that audit is making sure that they've reported all the income that they've earned, so that they can apply the appropriate tax rate to receive the tax dollars that are due. So the IRS audit is separate. I think a lot of people have fear around it. As I was thinking about this yesterday, I was reminded of a time when I was at a barber shop.

This was probably 15 years ago and the barber said, “So Erick, what do you do? What's your job?” And I said, “Oh, I'm an auditor.” And the entire barber shop got quiet. Everyone was like, “Oh, man. We can't say anything around this guy.” And I said, “I'm not that type of auditor.” Most audits that are happening, they're not audits that are at odds with each other. An IRS audit, they are saying, “We believe you've under-reported your income and we're going to prove the opposite.” Whereas a typical audit generally is just you've made an assertion. Can we verify that that assertion is accurate?

00:04:27

Andrea Marquez: So when we're talking about the typical audit, it's not like they're here against you. They're just trying to be like, “These are the facts. We're just laying them out.” Versus the IRS audit is much more like, “Oh, you really have to have your stuff together.”

00:04:42

Erick O. Bell: Usually what happens in an audit is it was a mistake that was made and so there'll be additional taxes, there'll be interest that you have to pay for the unpaid tax and then if you've significantly underpaid, there'd be penalties associated with it. But in a normal audit, you get to pick who your auditors are. The company selects their auditors.

00:05:03

Andrea Marquez: And just to ease your mind a bit, in case you do end up getting an IRS audit, here's what the process might look like.

00:05:10

Erick O. Bell: I think that first, you get the letter from the IRS, is be responsive. And then at some point, you may consider hiring a tax attorney, someone who has experience with negotiating with the IRS.  

And again, when we use this term, IRS audit, it's really more like an IRS agreed upon procedures. They're looking at a very specific aspect of your tax return. We see that you had $300,000 in revenue and you spent $100,000 in travel. Can you give us the receipts for those travel expenses? And so it sounds scary, but the reality is you just go to your credit card statements and pull up the receipts and say, “Here are my receipts for the $100,000 of training.”  

Now, if $50,000 of that was trips back and forth to Vegas, they're going to ask some follow-up questions. And so to the extent that you did your best, it really isn't a overwhelming or scary process. It's just a back and forth asking for questions and you're providing responses.

00:06:13

Andrea Marquez: So now let's get back to talking about the typical audits. If you're planning on getting an audit, there's a few things you need to do. The first one is be organized.

00:06:23

Erick O. Bell: Hire an accountant or a bookkeeper, someone that can help you navigate the audit process. Small business owners are really good at doing what they do and you don't want to be distracted from your business's purpose by focusing on an audit.

00:06:39

Andrea Marquez: The second is be honest.

00:06:42

Erick O. Bell: Most auditors are not out looking for gotcha moments. That's not the goal. The goal is to be collaborative and to help you understand the accounting rules and this is when and how you should or could recognize revenue.

00:06:58

Andrea Marquez: And the third is know some key audit terms.

00:07:02

Erick O. Bell: So for example, one term is materiality. Auditors are testing for whether or not the financial statements are correct in all material respects, which means if you had a million dollars in revenue, it doesn't matter if there's the extra $1, 000 that did or did not make it on there. A million dollars in revenue is a million dollars in revenue. Different from $1. 2 million. Now that 0. 2 becomes a material number. And by materiality, it's what information in the financial statements would be significant enough to influence the decision making of a potential investor or creditor.  

And then another key term, for example, would be audit adjustments. And this is just very standard and so this goes back to being honest and just understanding an auditor is going to come in and look at your financials and say, “You should have recorded this expense or you should not have recorded this expense, so what we're going to do is present you with adjustments that you can make to your financial statements that they will be correct.”  

And so a lot of times, people get nervous, because they say, “We want zero audit adjustments.” And I always say, “That's not how it works. You're going to have audit adjustments. That's why you have a second set of eyes coming in and looking at it and not to get all worked up and not even make that a goal.”

00:08:22

Andrea Marquez: And the fourth and in my opinion, the most important thing to keep in mind when you're getting an audit is...

00:08:27

Erick O. Bell: Be nice to your auditors. Here's what I would explain to my clients. Say, “I need you to understand something. I just came from a place where they did not want me there and now I'm here and I know you don't want me here. And when I leave here, I'm going to go to another place where someone doesn't want me to be there, so let's just work together, make this as painless as possible. I'm going to send you a list of documents that I want to see and then I'm going to add to it based off of what I've seen. We'll just try and get through this as easy as possible.” That usually gets a chuckle out of them, but understand that we're just here to do our jobs and ultimately, it's to make your financial statements be reliable.  

The whole purpose of an audit of financial statements is you can put those out to potential investors and creditors and say, “This information is reliable, because we did it and then we had someone else come in and they gave an opinion that says, ‘Yes, they did it right.’ ”

00:09:21

Andrea Marquez: That was Erick O. Bell, an accounting professor at the Haas School of Business at UC Berkeley. This was such an informative conversation on audits. I love that Erick managed to make getting an audit less daunting. We covered a lot in this episode.  

If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And please leave a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone, or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com.  

Until next time, this is Small Business. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Getting a Patent can be a complicated and expensive process, but it can protect your idea as you work on bringing it to market. Just ask Becca Davison, the CEO of UnbuckleMe, who got a patent early on in her small business journey. Becca explains how she came up with UnbuckleMe, why she decided to patent her idea early on, and what that process looked like for someone who was new to entrepreneurship. You’ll also hear from Colleen Chien, a professor at Berkeley Law School and the founder of the Paper Prisons and Diversity Pilots Initiatives. Colleen digs deeper into how a patent can protect your idea and breaks down everything you need to know before and during your patent application. Learn whether you should even get a patent, how you can protect your idea from copycats, and what the patenting process looks like.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(00:38) What is a patent?

(02:29) How Becca came up with UnbuckleMe

(05:28) The different types of Patents

(06:45) The process of filing a patent

(11:46) Why copycats can still show up even after you get a patent

(13:28) How to protect your idea from copycats

(14:41) The difference between copycats and competitors

Takeaways:

1 - Just because you can get a patent doesn’t mean you should. Colleen says that you should think about how it’ll benefit your business because a patent is expensive and the process could take a few years.

2 - If you’ve decided that a patent is the way to go, then you need to do a lot of research. First you need to find out if your product is novel and non-obvious by looking through existing patents and applications. You can look through online databases like the USPTO and Google Patents or you can hire someone to do it for you. Then you’ll have to decide whether you should get a design patent or a utility patent by figuring out what’s unique about your idea.

3 - If your budget is limited, the first step to the patent application could be filing a non-provisional patent. Colleen says that this patent acts as a placeholder for your idea and gives you 12 months to decide if you want to turn it into a full patent. A non-provisional patent or a pending patent application can also allow you to collaborate with manufacturers or do market research without being worried that someone might try to steal your idea.

4 - Unfortunately, having a patent doesn’t stop the copycats. But there are many ways you can protect your idea or product. Colleen suggests leveraging trademarks and copyright, and you can also try to broaden your patent claims like Becca did.

5 - Be open to healthy competition. It’s important to protect your idea from people who try to steal it, but there will be similar products on the market that will compete with yours. Instead of trying to take down every product that resembles yours, focus on making your product the best one on the market.

00:00:03

Andrea Marquez: There's a lot of benefits that come with getting a patent. It gives your product legal protection, it makes you look more marketable, and it lets potential investors, partners, and customers know that your product is unique and valuable. But a lot goes into applying for a patent. So where do you even start? When should you file a patent? And does a patent really protect your product from people who try to copy it?  

Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today, we'll be breaking down everything you need to know about patents, whether you even need one, and the process of filing it.

00:00:46

Colleen Chien: A patent is a legal document granted by the government, in this case, the Patent and Trademark Office, that gives the owner the exclusive right to make, use, sell, import, and distribute their invention for a certain period of time. So what it is is it's not the right to practice your invention, but the right to exclude others from using or profiting from it without your permission. It's sort of like a fence. It keeps people away from your property, but you still need to commercialize your invention if you want to make money on it.

00:01:12

Andrea Marquez: That's Colleen Chien, a professor at Berkeley Law School.

00:01:16

Colleen Chien: Before I started teaching, I worked in patent law for several years, both as a patent prosecutor, writing patents, but also providing advice to businesses on their patent strategies. I've also worked in public service. I worked in the White House on patent issues. So today, I'm speaking in my own capacity, but I just wanted to let you know I've been around the block a bit when it comes to patents.

00:01:33

Andrea Marquez: Colleen is the person to go to for anything patent related. She'll be explaining the process and giving us insights throughout the episode. It's important for me to mention that none of the things mentioned on this episode should be taken as legal advice. We are here to provide with general information. So before you do anything, please see qualified professional counsel on your specific matter. The hiring of an attorney is super important, so don't make the decision lightly or based solely on anything we cover today on this episode or any other, for that matter.

So now, before we talk to Colleen, let's hear from Becca Davison, the CEO and founder of Unbuckleme, a small tool that helps unlock a child's car seat. Right now, Becca has six patents, so her idea is pretty original and unique. Before we get into why Becca has six patents, let's dig into how she came up with the idea. As most businesses do, Becca got into entrepreneurship, because there was a gap in the market that she could fill.

00:02:33

Rebecca Davison: I had my first daughter in 2015, and my mom graciously offered to help me out with childcare.

00:02:38

Andrea Marquez: But when she was showing her mom how to unbuckle her daughter's car seat, she realized that her mom lacked the strength to do it.

00:02:45

Rebecca Davison: And we kind of looked at each other and thought, “Well, if you can't unbuckle the car seat, you can't take my daughter safely out of the house. How are we going to solve this problem?”

00:02:51

Andrea Marquez: Her mom settled on spending time with her granddaughter at home. But as Becca's daughter got older, her mom started to realize that she was missing on key memories that she could be making with her granddaughter, so she relies on her experience as an occupational therapist to come up with a solution.

00:03:07

Rebecca Davison: She designed an adaptive tool that is just a C shape tool. It's very simple, and it uses leverage. So if you think of like an old fashioned nutcracker, it just wraps around the button, that's flat on the five point harness, and it applies leverage to make it 50% easier to unbuckle. And so, it was the difference for her of being unable to do it herself with her thumb pressure and some arthritis at the base of her thumb and then, applying some leverage with this tool. And she was very easily able to unbuckle it.

00:03:35

Andrea Marquez: And when Becca saw her mom's solution...

00:03:37

Rebecca Davison: I thought, “She can't be the only person on the planet that's having the same struggle, so let's sort of explore it and see if maybe we can start a business at this point.” So I think her first response was like, “Oh, I can make a few more for your friends.” But we quickly started thinking, “Well, maybe this product should exist in the marketplace for other people to be able to use.”

00:03:57

Andrea Marquez: The first thing that they decided to do was refine the prototype that her mom created.

00:04:02

Rebecca Davison: She spent her career making splints for patients with disabilities and making adaptive tools, using leverage and rubber bands and things like that. That's what her whole career was. So to use some leftover splint material, it's very pliable. It heats up, and you can bend and stretch it. And then, it hardens when it cools. And so, it's a perfect prototyping material actually, because you can just test different features.

00:04:21

Andrea Marquez: And they tested everything.

00:04:23

Rebecca Davison: I think we probably had, no joke, over 75 prototypes of just, “What if the lever arm was longer? What if it was taller? What if it was open wider?” At one point, I think my mom got screws or hinges. We were trying so many different things, thinking, “Well, if we're going to actually invest the money into bringing this to market, we'd better make it perfect.”

00:04:40

Andrea Marquez: And once they finally settled on a prototype that was up to their standards, they decided to get market feedback and research.

00:04:46

Rebecca Davison: I think that's a super important step for early entrepreneurs is to really validate your concept and your idea. So we went to a trade show. We talked to a lot of industry experts. We actually gave out a lot of samples to people and got feedback and said, “What would you change about it? And also, what would you pay for it?” And so, that feedback was super important, and having all those prototypes really helped us get a lot of feedback in the early days. We wanted a product that customers loved, and that was just the driving goal and it continues to be our driving goal. We want customers to be so happy with this product.

00:05:14

Andrea Marquez: Becca knew that she had to protect her idea before she went to market, so they filed for a provisional patent a few months after they came up with her idea. And if you don't know what that is, Colleen says that it's the first step to filing a patent.

00:05:28

Colleen Chien: A provisional patent is kind of a temporary application filed with the US PTO. It's inexpensive in the sense that you don't have it go through the entire process, and it's great, because it allows you to claim patent pending status on your invention for up to a year. When you go from provisional to non-provisional, you're basically entering the formal application process and starting the examination. And that's generally for a utility patent. And a utility patent protects these functional aspects of your invention. It's what most people think about when they talk about patents.

00:05:56

Andrea Marquez: And there's also other types of patents, like the design patent.

00:06:00

Colleen Chien: Which cover our new original and ornamental designs for articles of manufacturer.

00:06:04

Andrea Marquez: And even a plant patent.

00:06:06

Colleen Chien: For new and distinct plant varieties.

00:06:10

Andrea Marquez: So we've already mentioned that Becca's product was unique and original, which is a requirement for your idea to be patentable. But in order to find out if your idea is novel and non-obvious, you have to do a lot of research.

00:06:25

Colleen Chien: It's about looking through existing patents, published applications, and also just looking around in the field and trying to understand, “Has this idea been discussed before? Has it been put into a product or sold?” If it has, then you're not going to be able to patent that idea in that form anymore. You'll probably try to look for some of the more unique elements of what you're doing. So you can start with online databases, like the USPTO or Google Patents or you can hire a professional to conduct the search for you.

00:06:49

Andrea Marquez: But Colleen says that just because you can apply for a patent doesn't mean you should.

00:06:53

Colleen Chien: I think you always want to start with a business need and what the business purpose of the patent is. Patents are expensive to apply for, and then, going through the process can take several years. So if you are looking for some kind of thing that you can hold in your hand, negotiate with immediately, a patent is not typically going to serve that purpose.

00:07:12

Andrea Marquez: But if you decide that you do want to get a patent, there's a few things you need to do before you start the filing process. First, you need to figure out which patent to get.

00:07:21

Colleen Chien: Is it the design that's really unique and unusual about your product? Or is it really some idea or new way of doing things that you're bringing to bear?

00:07:30

Andrea Marquez: Then you have to think about which patent will fit within your budget.

00:07:34

Colleen Chien: You can still start by filing a non-provisional patent, which is kind of like a placeholder. It's a patent application, but it's a way to say, “This is my idea. I'm going to stake out this territory, and then, I'll decide whether I want to turn it into a full blown patent at the end of the year.”

00:07:49

Andrea Marquez: That's what Becca did when she first applied for her patent. She says that they were still refining their prototypes and trying to figure out what they wanted their product to look like. So they filed for a provisional patent.

00:08:01

Rebecca Davison: Which, in the US, gives you 12 months to continue to sort of iterate around the margin of your design before you submit a non-provisional patent that gets actually examined by the US patent office.

00:08:12

Andrea Marquez: And Becca says that they needed all the time they could get, especially since they were new to entrepreneurship.

00:08:18

Rebecca Davison: So it's going to take us four times longer than it could take anyone else to pop on the market tomorrow with this product. So we needed to sort of buy ourselves some time in a sense and make sure that we had protected our idea to give us time to go do the legwork and make sure, again, that we had the most perfect product and that we had designed it and marketed it in the right way that we wanted to.

00:08:34

Andrea Marquez: Colleen also says that filing for a provisional patent is a great way to protect your idea, if you're not going to be working on it alone.

00:08:41

Colleen Chien: Having that patent or even that patent filing in your pocket gives you the confidence to have those conversations and say, “Hey, let's work together on this, but I want to make sure my rights are respected.” And that can allow there to be a tradable asset for that patent-holder or that patent applicant, that then they can use to negotiate with the other parties to, again, bring this to market. And it just provides that trust and that sense of confidence that that patent applicant or patent-holder can bring into the process, that there is something outside of the negotiation that's protectable by the patent-holder.

00:09:13

Andrea Marquez: So just filing a patent application can give you some peace of mind. Having an early filing date can work towards your advantage, if someone tries to copy your idea, but a patent application doesn't give you immediate legal protection. You could only enforce a patent after the patent is granted.

00:09:28

Colleen Chien: That's why I always recommend that using non-disclosure agreements and other ways of withholding information if you need to are going to be smart ways to also protect your idea when sharing it with potential partners or manufacturers. But I think it's important to realize that patents, as much as they can be used to exclude others from copying your idea, they can also be used to include others in your process and collaborate with them in bringing your idea to market.

00:09:54

Andrea Marquez: Okay, so after you've done your research and verified that your idea is original, you can finally start filing your patent. We've already said that the first step could be to file a non-provisional patent. It'll protect your idea as you work on it. Then if you realize that your idea is gaining traction in the market, Colleen says it's time to convert that provisional patent to a non-provisional patent.

00:10:18

Colleen Chien: Once you're in that range of filing an actual application, you'll go back and forth with the patent office over several rounds, in most cases. Your application will be reviewed by an examiner, and then, there'll be a back and forth, some suggestions with ways you can amend or make your patent claim stronger. And then, hopefully, eventually, in about three quarters of the cases, you'll get your patent. Once you get your patent, you'll have that exclusive right to your invention for a set period of time. You can continue to pay maintenance fees and have your patent live out its full life to 20 years from the date of filing.

00:10:50

Andrea Marquez: And once you have your patent, the first thing you should do is celebrate.

00:10:55

Rebecca Davison: I think we have a video of my mom and I popping champagne, and we were like, “We have the patent. It's so exciting. It's great. Everything's going to be good now.”

00:11:02

Andrea Marquez: Until someone tries to copy your product.

00:11:06

Rebecca Davison: I think what really surprised us was seeing some of the competitive products that popped up that looked identical to ours, but perhaps had just changed the smallest of details, things that were so nuanced and specific, that doesn't change the function of the product at all, but it was just copying our idea with a small tweak, but then, they could sort of use that language to say, “Well, they said that the top arm was longer than the bottom.” So you sort of get into this song and dance of what words you've included in your claims. And that was shocking to me, because I thought, “Well, what do you mean? This is the identical product. They've just taken the smallest interpretation of words.” And I do believe you can take someone to court, and you can say, “This is basically the same thing,” and you can make all those arguments. But we didn't have the resources to do that.

00:11:47

Andrea Marquez: Copycats can still exist, even if you have a patent. Colleen says that it's important to remember that a patent protects the idea, not the expression of the idea in terms of product.

00:11:58

Colleen Chien: So you can have a patent over a particular aspect of a product, and if the copycat doesn't copy that particular aspect, but copies other parts, then it will still bear a resemblance potentially to the original item that's being sold. So that would be a situation where I would consider it to potentially be uncomfortably close, even though it's not infringing.

00:12:19

Andrea Marquez: There are still ways to protect your product, like leveraging trademark and copyright.

00:12:24

Colleen Chien: Are they trading on your brand or copying some aspect that identifies you to the consumer? That could be a trademark violation. If they use your exact words or a source code, that could be a copyright violation. Notably, with copyright, you don't have to file for it. It automatically exists. So even if you haven't filed for formal protection, you can still register your copyright. You might have a copyright claim. You can go through process to apply for a trademark, even after you've been putting it in use or you intend to use it.

00:12:53

Andrea Marquez: We can't stress enough the importance of getting the right kind of help.

00:12:57

Rebecca Davison: I definitely recommend anybody going down this path to work with an IP attorney, because they are very familiar with this process and how to craft your claims in a way that broadens your coverage as much as possible. And I think patents are so important to small businesses, because we don't have the big resources of big corporate companies. So the patents that we do have have given us a bit of a moat to succeed and have been really critical to our success.

00:13:20

Andrea Marquez: It's also important to remember that there is a difference between copycats and competitors.

00:13:25

Rebecca Davison: I don't mean to come across and say that we don't welcome competition, because I do think, if people come up with new ways of doing things that are different, I think that's fair game. And I would argue that we were probably not the first. There was another tool on the market before us, and we saw it and it didn't work for my mom. And so, we aren't the first either. So I do think that there's a healthy space for innovation.

00:13:45

Andrea Marquez: So it's important to be open-minded about the competitive landscape. There can be healthy competition.

00:13:51

Rebecca Davison: And I think that's hard sometimes for entrepreneurs to recognize is they want to be very territorial about their invention, but you're solving a problem. You're going to find your target market. You're going to find those people that really, really want your product and really resonate with your story, and that's really all you need to focus on is how to succeed and how to make your business succeed. I think some of the legal stuff can be distracting, and if you focus too much on competitors, I think it can take your focus off what really matters, which is your own business and how to grow it.

00:14:21

Andrea Marquez: I'm so glad Becca pointed that out. Protecting your idea is important, but don't get too lost in the legalities of it all. That time is better spent on improving your business, and if you're considering getting a patent, Colleen says that right now is the perfect time to do it.

00:14:36

Colleen Chien: I think there's been a realization that we really need all ideas to be out there and to come to market as much as possible. And good ideas can come from many places, and I think, for small business owners, there may be that desire to ensure that your invention, if you're putting out in the world, it can be something that you can control to some degree. And that's what a patent can help you do.

00:14:55

Andrea Marquez: I think anything law related and business could get a little overwhelming, but Colleen and Becca did a great job in simplifying the process and explaining what a patent is. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business brought to you by Amazon.  

Reach out to us at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com to tell us what you're up to, or let me know what you think about this episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. And if you liked what you heard, I hope you'll share this with anyone else who needs to hear this. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy. Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www. smallbusiness. amazon.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Accidents happen, we make missteps, sometimes our brands are tarnished. So how do we prepare for the inevitable and mitigate impact? Indya ‘Icy’ Wright, the Founder and CEO of Artiste House, a PR firm that prioritizes diversity, inclusivity, and representation, has some answers. According to Wright, “all we can do is try to minimize the results of what happened, rectify it, and if things go well, move forward.”

In this episode you’ll hear:

(02:35) How do you figure out what your story is?

(05:22) How do you determine which issues to take a stance on publicly?

(07:52) You never know when a crisis will strike, how do you prepare?

(08:27) After a crisis, how do you deal with the potential loss of business?

Takeaways:

1 - Your story is one of the most important assets you have. Make sure you know what it is. Then create your content around what you have to say. We connect with the people behind the brand, so don’t be shy.

2 - Before you invest in public relations (PR), know what your goals are. If it’s improving invisibility, say yes to as many opportunities as you can. One of the few exceptions is if the offering brand’s values doesn’t align with your own. Another is creating controversy for attention’s sake.

3 - Being true to yourself and your brand will help you decide when and if you want to take a  vocal stand on issues. Tap into who you want to serve and what matters most to you.

4 - If you find yourself in the middle of a PR nightmare, bring in crisis management. You’ll need to assess impact, take accountability and most importantly, outline actionable steps toward preventing the same thing from happening again. Another smart step is having a crisis management plan in place before you need it.

5 - PR crises are inevitable. No matter how well loved you are or how careful you are, missteps happen. Plan for it. And remember, the customers who stick with you through the hard times are the ones who are truly invested in you and your brand. Once you know who they are, you can focus your messaging to them.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: Whether you're just starting your business or you're well into your entrepreneurial journey, one thing's for sure: your public image matters. But how do you build and maintain that? If you're not sure how to manage your brand's public relations, or PR, then this episode is for you.

I'm Andrea Marquez, and this is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today, we'll be talking about PR, how to get started and things to keep in mind for you and your business.

00:00:30

Indya Wright: When you think of smaller businesses or even just different nonprofits, they can invest in a public-relations agency nine times out of ten, and then the work that they're doing gets ignored and then they can't raise funds for the important causes that they serve. And so I love being able to provide that service, a quality service, but prioritizing the people that otherwise get ignored.

00:00:51

Andrea Marquez: That's Indya Wright, the founder and CEO of Artiste House, a PR firm that prioritizes diversity, inclusivity and representation. Indya has been working in PR since she was just 14 years old.

00:01:05

Indya Wright: Being a DC native, I was in something called the Summer Youth Employment Program, so I've got to see firsthand creatives doing their projects, advocates doing their projects... I've always been in this field and didn't realize it.

00:01:17

Andrea Marquez: Indya eventually worked in banking and the legal sector, but those early experiences stayed with her.

00:01:24

Indya Wright: And while in my free time I was amplifying the work people were doing, I never considered that something that could be a career for me. But I finally had this random aha moment after quitting my job at the Superior Court. Like, “Okay, what next?” Because I had no backup plan, no money saved at all. My first thought was to tell my story.

00:01:45

Andrea Marquez: And two weeks after quitting her job, she ended up in Chicago, telling her story to Mark Cuban and Steve Harvey on Steve Harvey Show.

00:01:54

Indya Wright: They gave me a seed of a thousand dollars with the caveat that this money has to go towards your dream, and honestly, I did not know what my dream was, what my thing was, and so I just went back to doing what I did best in my free time: amplifying people. But what happened from that public exposure was that people that had the budget to invest found me, hired me to help tell their stories, and so that's honestly how my company was born.

00:02:20

Andrea Marquez: So Indya knows from experience how important PR is, because telling her story is how she managed to start her own business. But before you can get your story out there, first you need to figure out what your story is and incorporate it into your brand.

00:02:36

Indya Wright: Everything you do, consider the story you want to tell, and that's going to reflect in the content you share online, where your product or service is available, the people you serve. That all ties to the story of your brand. When you think about PR, what I find is a lot of small businesses think, “Oh, I'm not there yet. I don't have the sales. I don't have the client base. I don't have this. I don't have that.” All this imposter syndrome kicks in. But the reality is it really, truly is about the story, and more often than not, people are more interested in the people behind the brand than the brand itself. It's less about the product or service, more about the person and the mission, and I feel like that's across the board. Any industry, any brand, any goal. Who are you serving? Why are you serving them? I feel like that's the hook that makes things newsworthy.

00:03:25

Andrea Marquez: Once you've answered these questions, Indya says that the first thing you should focus on when you're trying to amplify your brand story is building community.

00:03:33

Indya Wright: They become your biggest supporters, your audience, your fan base. They continue to help amplify the news that you generate for yourself. So I definitely think any business, any size, big or small, should start with community-building and nurturing their desired audience.

00:03:47

Andrea Marquez: Indya also says that you need to consider what your goals are before you invest in PR. And if your goal, like most small businesses, is to make sure everyone knows who you are, then you need to say yes to as many opportunities as you can.

00:04:02

Indya Wright: I feel like in the beginning, the more visibility, the better. The one exception to that is if that brand's values completely are not aligned with your own. Then it makes sense to not want to introduce yourself to their audience. But if it's just a random preference thing, “I don't think my audience is here,” you never know who may take interest in your brand, in your product. There's different facets to everyone.

00:04:29

Andrea Marquez: And there's one more reason to say no to an opportunity.

00:04:32

Indya Wright: There are some PR agencies that believe in using scandal to get the community talking. Personally, in my career, I would never advise a client to do that. I do not believe all press is good press. I prioritize the mission and the importance of what they do.

00:04:50

Andrea Marquez: I think it's so important that Indya pointed that out, so I'll say it again: not all press is good press. Visibility is important, but you need to make sure that you're reaching the right audience. Indya talked about how storytelling and community- building are important. People connect to the story behind the brand, and we see that when customers get upset if their favorite brand doesn't comment on an issue that they feel is important. So how do you figure out when to enter a conversation? Indya says that it all depends on how your brand is positioned.

00:05:21

Indya Wright: So if it's a situation where you're just being true to yourself, true to your brand, and you've been mission-based at the onset of creating this brand, it's not out of place for you to be vocal. So I think it depends on what means most to you. Is it about being accessible to everyone, or are you not afraid to niche down and really tap into who you want to serve and what matters most to you?

So, for example, let's say it's a major bank, a bank that serves clients nationally, globally. They may want to stay out of the conversation. They may want to stay quiet. It really has nothing to do with the clients they serve, the work that they do. But there may be, let's say, a small minority-owned bank whose community is impacted by something happening in the world. It may be important for them to be vocal about it because the people they serve may be waiting to hear from them.

00:06:10

Andrea Marquez: And if you end up with a PR nightmare on your hands, that's when you turn to crisis management.

00:06:15

Indya Wright: The first step would be assessing the impact, what was said, and then taking accountability for that. And then also the biggest piece to crisis management that puts clients, customers, viewers, at ease: you always have to outline actionable steps that you will take going forward, because an apology is just words. People want to see how you're going to prevent something like this from happening going forward. You have to be vocal. You have to display actionable steps. Otherwise, people will feel like you're not taking the crisis seriously, and it really hurts public trust.

00:06:49

Andrea Marquez: So assess the impact, take accountability, and lay out actionable steps to show your customers that this won't happen again. But that's a lot harder than it sounds, especially if you need to address a crisis as quickly as possible. So Indya says that having a crisis-management plan before a crisis happens is essential, no matter how big or small your business is.

00:07:11

Indya Wright: Who do we contact when crisis strikes? Who's going to be the front-facing spokesperson when crisis strikes? Who's going to approve the messaging to make sure we're all in agreement? And how soon do we respond to this crisis? The best course of action is to stay ready so you don't have to get ready. Have a crisis plan. Even if you're at a place in your career where you can't invest in full-time public relations, or crisis management, you can reach out to a PR firm to say, “Hey, we would like help developing a crisis-management plan just in case so that we have this.” That's another affordable option as well.

00:07:43

Andrea Marquez: Do you think every crisis can be navigated? Because I think about this a lot when I'm on social media. I'm like, “What can they do?”

00:07:52

Indya Wright: All you can do is mitigate impact. Unfortunately, even the best of professionals in the communication space, we cannot completely prevent or protect people from crisis. All we can do is try to minimize the results of what happened, rectify it, and if things go well, move forward. That's the result of good crisis management. It's reflecting, adapting, and potentially moving forward.

00:08:20

Andrea Marquez: I know hearing this is scary, that it's impossible to get it right, but the plus side is that staying true to your values can be good for business.

00:08:28

Indya Wright: There's never going to be a perfect answer, a perfect solution for anything. There never will be. And I think honestly, there's peace in realizing that that's okay, because when you potentially lose part of your audience or potentially lose clients or lose supporters, they weren't aligned with you and your brand. And I think the key to being profitable, the key to building brand awareness, the key to getting out there, is making sure people that are really invested in you and what you're doing find you. And I think by weeding out those that aren't, it makes it easier for you to really hone in on the messaging for your audience.

00:09:06

Andrea Marquez: That was Indya Wright, the founder and CEO of Artiste House. Ending on a positive note, even though I hope none of us have to go through a PR crisis, I feel a little more comfortable knowing what steps I should take in case that happens.

We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to You by Amazon.  

Make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. Or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com.

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, with technical and story production by Jar Audio.

If there's one thing we’ve learned over the many episodes of this show, it’s that owning and operating your own business is hard. You have to overcome challenges you didn’t even know existed. Thinking of becoming an entrepreneur or you’re wondering if you should stick it out? We have Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts, scholar, speaker and consultant, who studies the science of maximizing human potential, to guide us through. “I do think for every market need, for every human desire, there is an entrepreneur who is inspired and equipped to meet that need and to help for people to connect with that desire”And Pamela Wirth, of Hello Health, will share what she’s learned on her path to entrepreneurship. Learn from an expert and those who have been there!      

In this episode you’ll hear:

(03:49) Why connecting with others is one of the most important traits of an entrepreneur(05:23) What qualities you need to be an entrepreneur        

(08:17) If you can't go all in on your business because you need the financial security of a 9 to 5, how else can you start your business journey?

(10:24) How do you start a business if you have too much on your plate?

(12:56) An entrepreneur is also a leader, so what qualities do you need to be a great leader?

(15:38) What are some hurdles that entrepreneurs might have to overcome when they're thinking about starting a business?

(18:45) What are some of the qualities you need to help you get through the tough times?

Takeaways:

1 - As an entrepreneur you need to be able to connect with people, whether that’s customers or employees. Running a successful business requires identifying your market then meeting people’s needs. Look to fill a gap in the market or even better yet, create a new one.

2 - Think long and hard about your ability to manage risk and then how to work within your parameters. You can start small while still working full-time, and grow incrementally while continually assessing the risk. Your business doesn’t need to be all or nothing.

3 - If you are already feeling maxed out with what’s on your plate, think of ways to build a business around what you’re already doing. Your business can be an extension of the knowledge you have and the work being done.

4 - As an entrepreneur, you’ll need to be a leader.  A big part of that is understanding what motives some people may not motivate others. Be flexible and agile in your leadership.

5 - Play to your strengths. Figure out what only you can bring to the table. Once you know what you’re good at, continue to develop those skills by asking for feedback then leverage that in the business you are creating.

6 - You don’t have to have all the answers before you start. Be open to listening and learning along the way. While it’s good to learn from the mistakes of others, you are also free to do things differently.

7 - Having passion and commitment will get you through the tough times. Because there will inevitably be some. Pay attention to the good times in order to keep finessing what you’re doing.

00:00:04

Andrea Marquez: Hi, this is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. I started this podcast because I wanted to learn more about small businesses and how entrepreneurs do it. Through my many conversations, what stands out is the dedication, the drive, the commitment and unwavering conviction it takes to do this, to be an entrepreneur.

But of course, there's more to it than that. Running your small business requires so many hacks. That's why I truly believe this is one of the most important conversations that needs to be had early on in your journey. Do you have what it takes to start and run a business of your own?  

For this episode, we're going to explore this question and look at how to prepare yourself for taking the leap and opening your own business. And if you've already done so, you'll hear tips for hanging in there. To dig into this question, I have organizational psychologist and consultant, Laura Morgan Roberts. But first, let's hear from Pamela Wirth Barnhill, who like many entrepreneurs, has seen her share of struggles.

00:01:15

Pamela Wirth Barnhill: I had to sell a car and spend an incredible amount of money getting to where I'm at.

00:01:19

Andrea Marquez: She's the CEO and founder of Hello Health based in Arizona.

00:01:24

Pamela Wirth Barnhill: Hello Health is supplements for brain, gut and immune health, as well as we are very shortly in early 2024, rolling out cost-effective lab testing for brain, gut and immune disorders. We're going to also be introducing more of a community because a safe place to be able to connect with others is really important, and so that's a big priority of ours.

00:01:46

Andrea Marquez: Long before Hello Health, Pamela knew at her core that she was an entrepreneur, but she didn't know where to direct that energy until her son got sick.

00:01:54

Pamela Wirth Barnhill: Around the age of five and a half, six years old, started baby talking, crawling eyes, constantly dilated, devoid of all emotion, would wash his hands 30, 40 times a day, would enter and exit rooms in a certain manner. He had shoulder shrugs and eye tics and head mannerisms.

00:02:10

Andrea Marquez: After multiple trips to different doctors and diagnoses that didn't quite fit, Pam finally found a treatment plan that made sense to her.

00:02:18

Pamela Wirth Barnhill: And the doctor says, “So we need to fix his gut.”

00:02:21

Andrea Marquez: It wasn't easy, but Pamela stuck to it, and her trouble accessing the tests and knowhow in supplements needed to help heal her son is what started her on her path to opening her own business. You are not the first person who has been given a diagnosis for a loved one. You not only went through this whole journey, you took it a step further and decided to do something about this. When did you feel confident to pursue this particular idea?

00:02:48

Pamela Wirth Barnhill: I totally had imposter syndrome for years. I probably had this idea for three or four years before I actually started acting on it, and it just kept eating at me because I kept talking myself out of it and I was like, “Oh, it's going to be too expensive. It can take too much time. How are we going to do this? Am I really good enough? Well, there's already brands out there. Well, they don't exactly do this, so maybe I should.” There was nothing out there that was really talking to me where I was at, and I figured if there's nothing talking to me, there must be a hole talking to others too.

00:03:21

Andrea Marquez: I think this is a golden ticket for starting a business. Life leads you to a gap in the market, which plants an idea that just won't go away. And it's interesting that Pamela is saying nothing was speaking to her where she was at. It's something our next guest finds incredibly important. Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts is scholar, speaker and consultant working within the social sciences. She says the ability to connect is one of the most essential traits of an entrepreneur.

00:03:49

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: For many people, it's the socio emotional skills, to be able to connect with others. We say this phrase all the time, it feels passe at this point, but meet people where they are. I think that practice is paramount for any leader. It's also paramount for any entrepreneur, a small business owner. You have to understand what kinds of needs people have when they're coming as a member of your team, when they're coming as a client or a customer of your business and the unique strengths and skills that you bring that can help to meet whatever need they have in that moment.

00:04:32

Andrea Marquez: Okay, understanding people's needs and then meeting them is foundational in small business ownership. But is there such a thing as the ideal entrepreneur?

00:04:41

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: I don't think that there is an ideal entrepreneur across the board. I do think for every market need, for every human desire, there is an entrepreneur who is inspired and equipped to meet that need and to help for people to connect with that desire. So as long as you know what market you're trying to support, that you're trying to engage, that you're trying to ignite and activate, you can become an entrepreneur who will be best equipped to serve them.

00:05:18

Andrea Marquez: So understanding the market you're entering is essential, but what sort of qualities do we need?

00:05:23

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: Let's start with your capabilities. What is it that you can do very well that would help you to develop the product or service that would be of interest, that would be of need to other people? I'd start there. If you don't have the capability, it's not a deal breaker. In my area of business, which is consulting, coaching, strategic advising, I can invest in developing my skills and my expertise in that domain so that I can then provide high quality services to others. But it's pretty hard to build a business if you don't have some level of expertise and you've not invested some time and effort into cultivating or refining your skill set.

00:06:06

Andrea Marquez: Right. You need to have the skills to be able to offer top service. What else?

00:06:11

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: The secret sauce is finding a way to design or deliver a product or service that is not already available in the marketplace. It's not about replication. It's not about imitation. It's really about embracing what is distinct, authentic and unique about your vision and your approach, and learning how to align that with the market's needs. Even better, creating a new market that doesn't already exist, but aligning that around your ability to differentiate.

00:06:45

Andrea Marquez: Don't be afraid to stand out. Here's what Laura would say to someone that asks, “Do I have what it takes to be an entrepreneur?”

00:06:52

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: I would say, what are your priorities and what is your risk profile? It's less about whether you have what it takes and more about what you're willing to give or give up on the path to entrepreneurship.

00:07:12

Andrea Marquez: So earlier, we heard Pamela talk about having to sell her car in order to raise funds. So Dr. Morgan Roberts, how do we determine this? How would I determine if I'm willing to do what it takes to be an entrepreneur and use me as an example?

00:07:29

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: I would love to. What would it take for you to become an entrepreneur? Is there anything in your life that you would have to change, modify, alter, sacrifice in order to pursue entrepreneurship?

00:07:47

Andrea Marquez: I feel like for myself, I would probably have to quit my current corporate 9-5 job. And I say this because I know that a lot of people have side hustles. However, I am a primary caretaker for a sick relative, my mother, and I also do a lot of extra things for my family. So since I'm not willing to sacrifice helping my family, I would need to sacrifice my 9-5 job, which would then come with, “Well, then how am I going to get paid?” Right?

00:08:17

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: And for most people, that is the trade-off. It's the financial security. It's the need to be able to provide for oneself and to provide for one's family. That feels like a big barrier in pursuing entrepreneurship. The phrase you used was going all in. I would suggest perhaps starting small and letting something grow. That would be the first piece, that it doesn't have to be an all or nothing overnight radical change or shift.  

The way that our economy is currently structured, technology provides so many helpful platforms that will allow us to grow and develop in our business ventures in smaller increments. It doesn't have to be the all or nothing venture that it used to be when someone invented something in their garage or their basement and then they were selling it out of the trunk of their car. We have platforms that can help to support in the vendor process. We have technology that can help to manage our communications and PR. We have social media that can help to send out messaging and promotions about the work that we're doing that can provide more efficiency in our entrepreneurship.

So the massive sacrifice of cutting the tether and setting sail is quite large, and it's a privilege for many people to be able to dive all in in that way. Or you have to have a really high risk profile like, “I believe in my idea, this is going to pay off and here goes, it's all or nothing.” That's why we use the phrase, ‘Going for broke.’ That's what it means to go for broke, but I think the vast majority of entrepreneurs and small business owners are growing their businesses and their ventures incrementally and not taking that all or nothing approach.

00:10:18

Andrea Marquez: Right. Start small. But how do you make it work if you already feel maxed out?

00:10:24

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: Synergy. This has been huge for me in my work. As I mentioned, I am someone who still has a full-time job and therefore my business ventures have always been part-time by necessity, because as a full-time professor, I have obligations. I have student needs. I'm also an active researcher and writer. So there are lots of things that I do that help me to be much more impactful and responsive in my business, but it's part of my full-time profession.

So how does the work that I do in my day job as a researcher, as a professor help me as an entrepreneur? For me, it's understanding the needs of the market, finding different ways to speak to people and to help to support and address their needs outside of the proverbial ivory tower, outside of higher education. There's so many other people on the planet who are asking these same questions about leadership, who want resources, who are hungry for this information and knowledge. They don't want to read the textbook version of it, right?

But they want somebody who can translate for them the cutting edge latest insights in a way that is rigorous, relevant and relatable. And that's where synergy comes in. So I will come back to you and say, you don't have to answer this now, but some things to ponder would be what is it that I'm already doing that I focus a lot of time and energy on that I'm able to offer, to provide, to engage in the context of my full-time work or conversely, outside of work, the things that I'm doing as a caregiver, the things that I'm doing in my community and with my friends? Are there ways that I can take the activities that I'm already involved with, I'm already invested in, I've been cultivating my skills and my capabilities? And perhaps use that to help to fuel some of my entrepreneurial ventures and then build out from there.

00:12:42

Andrea Marquez: Great pieces of advice. Thank you. And let's say your small business evolves from a side hustle to something bigger with employees, you're a leadership consultant. What are some key characteristics of a great leader?

00:12:56

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: I think one struggle and challenge is assuming that what works for you, works for everyone else. What lights you up will light up everyone else. What motivates you, motivates everyone else. You may love happy hours after work as a way of bonding with other folks in your organization. I guarantee you there are one or two people who would rather not engage in happy hours, but go along with it because they want to be supportive of the team. And there may be one or two that feel really uncomfortable with that and would much rather connect over a coffee, a tea, or a community service project.

So assumptions about what motivates us, what helps us to feel more connected and engaged. They're often based on our own limited experience. And as we grow older, as we gain more exposure, as we encounter people from diverse backgrounds with diverse life stories and a unique set of needs, we realize that we can't use a one-size-fits-all strategy for leadership. We have to be more flexible, we have to be more agile.

00:14:14

Andrea Marquez: What else do you think people should be thinking about before starting a business of their own?

00:14:18

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: So one of the practices that I encourage on a daily basis involves playing to your strengths. So thinking about how I show up as my best selves in any environment means I'm actively engaging my strengths. I'm doing the things that I do well. I'm trying to learn how I can be even better in those areas and how I can utilize my strengths to connect to other people's needs and to create new marketplace opportunities.

So if one of my strengths is public speaking, then I'm looking for new opportunities to be able to utilize my voice in settings with audiences that would appeal to my message and to the work that I'm bringing. I'm also trying to get more feedback on public speaking, which aspect of the talk, of the speech, of the story, of the message resonates most so that I can continue to grow in that area. All these are different ways to be able to tap into one small strength and leverage that as a signature feature of my own business.

00:15:31

Andrea Marquez: What were some of the hurdles you were up against? What did you not fully realize until you had some experience under your belt?

00:15:39

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: When I first started as an entrepreneur, I had two things that were really holding me back. One, I thought I had to have all the answers. I had to be the authority, I had to be the expert, and who was I at 30 years old to be the authority on much? Right? I hadn't had a lot of lived experiences at that time, and I was advising and supporting people who were older than I was, who were more experienced than I. I had to figure out how I could bring value to that engagement in a way that wasn't predicated on me having to prove that I was the smartest person in the room. I thought I had to be perfect. I wasn't always able to just lean back and enjoy the moment and listen to what everyone else had to teach me that ultimately helped me to build a better business.

The second fallacy or mistaken assumption I had was I had to do it like everybody else. I'm in this business of leadership development and consulting, and I'm very fortunate. I have been mentored by, supported by some of the most brilliant, kind-hearted people in the world who do this work, and it was so intimidating to sit back and watch them leading their businesses. So you try to imitate and borrow a little bit of what this person is doing, a little bit of what that person is doing, but ultimately, you miss out on developing your own brand. It's really about finding your own path to unique value creation that gives you joy and fulfillment in life.

00:17:35

Andrea Marquez: I love that. Don't aim for perfection. Do your homework and believe in your abilities, and then do what you do best. Play to your strengths. And let's bring Pamela back for a minute before we go. We've talked a lot about the skills needed to be an entrepreneur. Pamela, was there ever a moment when you thought about giving up?

00:17:56

Pamela Wirth Barnhill: Yeah, there were a couple of times where I had people saying, “Hey, this next critical step is going to get real expensive. Are you sure you're in?” I was like, “Okay, here we go.” I've been working full-time through this too. I have not taken any outside investment as much as I've wanted to. I had someone offer me $ 250,000 for half of the company, and that was super tempting. But then at the end of the day, half the company is a lot. And then if you ever did want to take outside investment, again, there's practically nothing left. I'm on this current path where I am slowly growing with intention so that it doesn't break.

00:18:30

Andrea Marquez: It's nerve-wracking to put so much money, time and effort into something that isn't a sure thing. So here's what Dr. Morgan Roberts thinks, keeps people going when the going gets tough and there's so much uncertainty.

00:18:44

Dr. Laura Morgan Roberts: Some degree of passion, some commitment, something that's just going to give you the elbow grease to take an idea, take a dream, take a product, a service and keep working with it, keep growing in that area, keep finessing it, bounce back from the feedback that you get. Learn from the rejection along the way. Pay attention to the moments when your business is really booming and the times when things are a little more quiet and try to learn from all of that. If you hold fast to the passion, you remain dedicated to your vision for impact, and that's really important to keep you going as well.

00:19:27

Andrea Marquez: That was an invaluable conversation. I hope this inspires a lot of entrepreneurs who may feel blocked from taking the next step. As we heard, sometimes it's about starting small, being unique, playing to your strengths and really connecting with people. Be authentic in who you are and what you have to offer. Look for the gaps in the market and fill them in a way that only you can.  

So do you have what it takes to be a small business owner? There's only one way to find out. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Reach out to us at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com to tell us what you're up to, or let me know what you think of this episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. And if you liked what you heard, I hope you'll share us with anyone else who needs to hear this. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or maybe you already have your business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help is the Amazon Small Business Academy. Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www. smallbusiness. amazon.  

That's it for today's episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego , and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Money is such an integral part of your business. So when the time comes and you need to secure more, where do you start? Who do you turn to? We’ve got Iman Cotton, loans officer with CDC Small Business Finance to guide us through it. Iman says that a good place to start is by thinking, “something that sounds too good to be true, probably is.”Learn how to best prepare you and your business for a loan.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:39) How do you find a good lender?

(03:29) What documents do you need to apply to a small business loan?

(04:31) Mistakes small business owners make when they want to apply for a loan.

(07:34) Now that you have the loan, what happens if you’re struggling to pay it back?

Takeaways:

1 -The first step is looking for a lender, the place to start is at institutions you have a relationship with. And be sure to check out all of your options, traditional banks are a great start but also check in with local SBA district offices. Do your homework and feel confident about which lender and loan is best for you before signing on the dotted line.

2 - Get all your paperwork in order. For startups, have your business plan, financial projections and your completed personal tax return on hand. Existing businesses are going to need personal and business tax returns completed and financial statements.

3 - There are definitely some things to avoid. Don’t spend money before you know you can finance the entire cost of your venture. Hire professionals when it comes to things you might not be qualified to do, like taxes. Be careful not to write off all of your revenue in order to keep your taxable income down. Don’t borrow more than you need.

4 - Be transparent with your lender if your financial plan goes awry. Things don’t always go as planned. If you’re struggling to hold up your end of the bargain, being open and honest is imperative.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: Money is always top of mind for an entrepreneur. You need it to be able to start, grow, pay yourself, your employees. The list goes on and on and on. And one way to fund your business is through loans. I don't know if you feel like this, but to me, loans are super scary. I've always been told to never spend money I don't have. What will happen if I miss a payment? How can I make sure I'll be able to pay it on time? Where do I even apply for loans? How do I find out if I qualify? If you've never applied for a loan before, it can feel like a daunting process. So let's break it down together. I'm Andrea Marquez and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about business loans.

00:00:47

Iman Cotton: Each financial institution has credit enhancement products such as loans, government-guaranteed loans, state-guaranteed loans. They even also have lines of credits and possibly more products. Then there's non-traditional lending organizations such as a certified development company or a CDC, and they are created to help business owners access capital. There's also community development financial institution who provides access to affordable financial products and services in underserved communities.

00:01:19

Andrea Marquez: That's Iman Cotton. She's a loan officer with CDC Small Business Finance. And before that she worked in banking with loads of traditional institutions. Iman just listed a bunch of different options that are available to small business owners. But before you start applying for a loan, first you need to figure out who's going to be your lender.

00:01:39

Iman Cotton: Start with your deposit relationship or start with your actual bank that you're working with. So I'm huge on relationships and I love relationships because I love the guidance and I want to work with like-minded individuals and people who believe in me and will champion whatever it is that I'm doing. So who's your deposit relationship with? Also, you want to explore and research the SBA District Office in your area, and then there's other resource partners such as the SBDC and SCORE, and they can help with business plans, with different resources, with different lending partners.

00:02:15

Andrea Marquez: And there's a few red flags to keep in mind while you're trying to find a lender.

00:02:19

Iman Cotton: You want to ensure that they're an actual lender. So for an example, there's a Merchant Cash Advance or MCA. This is not a loan, this is an advance on your receivables that you're able to secure in the event you accept debit and credit card payments. But again, an MCA is not a loan. It's an advance on your future receivables where you pay back a percentage of your daily sales as the repayment.

00:02:46

Andrea Marquez: And you've heard this one before, but...

00:02:49

Iman Cotton: Something that sounds too good to be true, it probably is. So those loans that you can get approved in days or it's low doc or no doc or quick documents, you want to be leery of those because you may have an extremely high annual percentage rate or APR. And then also, if they can't disclose the APR or the annual percentage rate, be leery.

00:03:14

Andrea Marquez: Honestly, I apply that to all of my life. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. So when you've done your research and figured out what loan and lender works best for you, you may be ready to apply. Let's get into what documents you'll need.

00:03:29

Iman Cotton: If you're a startup business, you want to ensure that you have a business plan and financial projections. We want to see that you have your personal tax return completed for the current year. If you're an existing business, you want to ensure that you have your current personal and business tax returns completed and that their current and accurate. We want to see that you also have interim financial statements such as an interim profit and loss statement and an interim balance sheet. Being aware of your current debt load and cash position is extremely important. That way we can have an intelligent conversation and I can help possibly quarterback the situation to make suggestions or recommendations, how to better prepare yourself in the event that I don't have a solution for you today. If the answer is no today, how can we turn that no into a yes or what's the actual game plan?

00:04:22

Andrea Marquez: Now, let's get into what you should avoid doing when you want to apply for a small business loan. The first is, don't spend money until you know can finance the whole cost.

00:04:32

Iman Cotton: So for instance, if you have construction or tenant improvements that you need for a new location that you're looking to lease or to have your business run out of. If the construction is $200,000 and then it happens to increase to $250,000, if you've already started that project and the project increases, you might run the chance where you can't receive financing because some lenders may not go into a project that's started to finance it.