Ep 9: Ruby makes the leap to selling online

[00:00:02] NICOLE: Very simply, I think that the path to purchase is not straight. And so we cannot expect a consumer to only go to a brick and mortar store. The desire of one customer is going to be very different than another customer. And we need to make sure that that path to purchase is seamless. So whether you have a brick and mortar store or you sell online exclusively, or you're looking to be everywhere, the option nowadays is basically, yes, please, be everywhere you can.

[00:00:32] HOST: Hi I'm Andrea Marquez -- and This is Small Business – a podcast by Amazon. This show is all about learning how to start, build, and scale a small business. On each episode - I gather super valuable nuggets that I'm filing away in my small business playbook for future reference if I decide to start my own business one day. At the end of each episode -- I call out key takeaways for you to use on your small business journey.

Today, it’s very hard to find any business [00:01:00] that doesn’t have some sort of footprint online. And the more I have talked to small business owners and experts on this show, the more I’ve learned that it’s not only critical to be online, but also to consider how your business shows up online. So, I wanted to explore when and how a product-based small business decides to go digital. The journey is different for everyone and I was especially intrigued by how a handmade business manages to go online and when they’re ready, considering they are the ones fulfilling orders one by one. Like my first guest today, Ruby Hong creator and founder of the all-natural and nature inspired handmade soaps, candles, and beauty products company - Beets and Apples. Ruby started out by working late into the night perfecting her products and recipes and selling them at her local farmers markets before she made the leap to selling online where, since then, her business has been booming!

[00:02:00] Later, I'll also be speaking with Nicole Leinbach, the Founder and Publisher of RetailMinded.com, a well-respected retail industry resource that has been recognized worldwide for its leading business insights since 2007. And as always, before we get started I want to remind you to subscribe to This is Small Business on your preferred platform, and rate us on Apple Podcasts. Leave us a review and let us know what you think. We need those so we can keep getting better!

Shout out to listener nuckcicle who said that as a small business owner they have learned a lot from this show. So have I! So thank you for going on this journey with me. Join listeners like nuckcicle in letting us know what you think of our little show This is Small Business.

[00:02:54] Andrea: Ruby, thank you so much for being on This is Small Business today.

[00:02:57] Ruby Hong: I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[00:03:00] Andrea: So I should mention before I jump into questions that I have tried your candles and what I do carry with me in my purse is your organic coconut beeswax lip balm.

[00:03:11] Ruby Hong: Yeah, those are the best.

[00:03:12] Andrea: I love the candle as well! And what Beets and Apples is doing. So tell me about Beets & Apples, how did you get started?

[00:03:20] Ruby Hong: I grew up watching my mother who also ran a small business. She ran a brick-and-mortar store and it just always, it kind of inspired me watching her to go to work. She had a sense of pride and joy and excitement and, you know, to be the owner. And I was like, oh, I wanna be her. Like, I want to make her proud. One day I'll come up with something and I'll have my own small business. And so it was something that I always knew that I would be doing. I just didn't know what I'll be selling, but the universe always makes a way and leads you. And, one of my favorite ways to distress is taking a long hot bath. [00:04:00] And that kind of occurred me that, you know using these products, and why don't I make it for myself? That's a hundred percent natural and that’s available for local customers. So that's how it started. I start giving out the products like bath salts and soaps and candles to my friends and family, and they loved it. And so that led me to selling in a farmer's market and then on Amazon.

[00:04:26] Andrea: So you started with a small group of people who you knew, they reacted positively, and you decided to branch out to farmer’s markets.

[00:04:34] Ruby Hong: Yeah. So like, when I first had like my first product, like bath salt and soaps. I knew that if you are gonna grow your business in this market economy, you have to go online. Like I knew that it has to be all online is the future, but, just because you have your website, nobody's gonna come and buy that product. It's very hard. So it was just obviously the natural way for me to go to farmer's market. [00:05:00] It's very easy. As long as you're local and you set up a venue and then they give you a booth to attend every week.

[00:05:09] Andrea: So why did you decide to go to farmer’s markets before going online? If you knew that it was going to be better to be online eventually?

[00:05:17] Ruby Hong: Yeah, because, when I made Beets and Apples, I obviously I had a website made, but it was nothing there. I didn't know, as a small business owner, how to attract customers to my website. It's something that I've never done. So obviously that's why, even though I knew that online is the way. I never thought about selling on Amazon or selling on online. So it just, it was kind of just learning time for me. And going on a farmer's market was really great because it helped me learn a lot from meeting my customers face to face.

[00:05:50] Andrea: And then at what point did you decide it was time to go online?

[00:05:53] Ruby Hong: I always knew that there is a limit to selling offline. [00:06:00] Customers are only there when they attend the farmer's market or when the retail brick and mortar shop is open, right. The hours are very limited, but, when I knew was when I got an invitation from Amazon handmade, like, “Hey, we are opening this.” Artisans are welcome to join. So I said, oh, let me just start selling here. And I had a very little hope that I'll make it. But I was gaining confidence in myself as a business owner and in my products at those six months that I was selling at farmer's market, I knew that I had a great product. So I started listing it on Amazon handmade and it started getting a lot of attraction and orders and I knew, oh, this is a time for me to stop the farmer's market. Cuz it's a lot of work. You have to produce and bring. So I need to focus on online. So that's when I knew when the sales were growing online, I felt safe that, oh, now I can move and focus on growing my business online.

[00:06:57] HOST: So for Ruby, selling at the farmer’s market was a type of prototyping, [00:07:00] testing out small batches of her product and seeing reactions from customers in real time. It helped her test, learn, and feel ready for when she made the jump online. This was especially helpful during the pandemic, when more customers moved online for their purchases.

[00:07:18] Ruby Hong: After the pandemic my business doubled on Amazon because that's when everybody was at home. Like their brick-and-mortar shop was closed and everybody was pretty much shopping on Amazon. And I think people found that refreshing that Amazon carries handmade products from all different local makers. So, yeah. It's a very good channel for me as a small business owner to reach thousands like millions of customers all across USA.

[00:07:50] HOST: It’s interesting to see that not all channels might be right for your business all the time. This reminds me about our conversation with Daniel Singer of Filthy Foods in episode 8 [00:08:00] “Daniel nails product presentation” where we talked about meeting customer expectations though packaging. Based on what I’m learning about from Ruby, you also need to consider meeting customer expectations through channels and making sure you’re meeting them where they are. For Ruby, a farmer’s market, while helpful for testing out, isn’t exactly the prime place for her particular product if she wanted to grow.

[00:08:26] Andrea: What were some of the things that you considered before going online?

[00:08:31] Ruby Hong: So, the things that I really considered going online were: Is my product really good enough? Cuz there are thousands, millions of products that sell online. You have to have your clear value proposition. You have to know if your product is actually what customer wants and, you know, I, it was very important for me to create a product that makes customers lives very happy [00:09:00] and meaningful. And that's why I turned Beets & Apples to specialize in Gift sets, but not just the gift sets, but gift sets with fun themes, like Happy Birthdays and promotions. And secondly, the thing that I considered was: what's the right channel for you to sell your product? For me, it was Amazon cuz obviously Amazon with prime, I'm able to work pretty much like free at my own time. Amazon will deal with the products and shipments and customer service. There are already millions of people ready to buy.

[00:09:41] HOST: So, have a clear value proposition that ensures you stand out among the sea of other products; which is a constant we’ve learned throughout episodes, as well as choosing the right channel for your product because not everything might work the same. Ruby had a fun case study that she shared with me [00:10:00] for why going online is critical and why knowing which channel is best depending on your product or service.

[00:10:07] Ruby Hong: My father-in-law and my mom-in-law here run a mom and dad upholstery business for 30 years. They actually have a physical store and they didn't believe in the power of online. So I, as a daughter-in-law wanted to be nice to them and I set up their online website for them. I listed the works that they did. I talked about their stories. I created the online form where the customers can reach out to them and it made such a big difference. Just having that online presence. Like “I saw these photos that you did. Can you do it for me?” You know, “I saw that you guys do this business, like this type of work. Can you do this here?” So it was very helpful. So I'm, I truly believe the channel. You always have to go online, any business from any background [00:11:00] should have a presence online if you wanna grow.

[00:11:03] Andrea: I love that! Gotta go the extra mile for the in-laws!

[00:11:07] Ruby Hong: …you have to be nice too. Yeah, my in-laws.

[00:11:11] Andrea: So, considering you’re a handmade business, and that you produce everything yourself, and then you talked about how going online gave you more traction and orders increased, how do you handle the quality of the product in a way that ensures you meet customer expectations on time?

[00:11:27] Ruby Hong: I do pretty much everything. Packing, making sure everything goes smoothly, marketing, right? But I made sure that I had a good team and we were very specific on the quality control following specifically like the ratio of the beeswax to the oils and everything we had meticulously written down and from the temperature of the candles we had to follow the rules that we had set. And the quality part was, I think, I guess a bit easier for me, [00:12:00] cuz I've already gone through selling my products at farmer's market. I knew what customers loved and wanted. You have to go through a lot of trial and error to come up with the best quality. And also because of the online, I had to be really good at packing, shipping. It's incredibly hard. And also because we want to be gentle to mother earth. I wanted to use less plastic packaging, so it costs more, but it's really worth it in the long run.

[00:12:32] Andrea: What are some things that you learned that you would do differently in the process of taking your small business online?

[00:12:39] Ruby Hong: I wished I joined selling online sooner because it's a lot of time, time is literally money. Once you start that step, once you start your first step of selling online, you'll figure it out. As long as you don't give up, you keep digging, you study, you study the market and you know, I, I just wish I could sell it a lot sooner.

[00:13:00] HOST: Go online sooner than you think because you’ll figure it out along the way. It doesn’t have to be perfect. I’ll be filing that one away in my playbook for sure. And Ruby shared two last pieces of advice for small business owners.

[00:13:15] Ruby Hong: You don't have to spend a ton of money on hiring a professional because you have to have capital to keep going. If you run out of the money, you can't test your ideas. You can't create a product. So don't waste money on hiring marketing professionals or hiring expensive photographers. You don't need to do that. I made a mistake early on for the Beets and Apples logo. We hired a designer and we paid $1,000 to just create my logo, but looking back, I mean, it's great. It turned out great, but it's those little things. You can save and put those finance into actually improving your products. And another thing would be. [00:14:00] Just keep hustling. It is tough out there. There's so many competitions, but it's a rewarding journey. You'll meet great customers. It's a very fun and meaningful journey to run a business and make an impact on customer's life in a positive way. It will get hard, but don't give up on that.

[00:14:27] HOST: MIDPOINT: You're listening to This is Small Business -- brought to you by Amazon. I'm your host Andrea Marquez. That was Ruby Hong -- Founder of Beets and Apples... with great candles, soaps, and my personal favorite coconut lip balm. I’d definitely recommend Beets and Apples if you’re looking for a great gift box with little goodies you can personalize.

Did you know that more than half of the products sold on Amazon come from small-and-medium sized businesses? Beets and Apples is one of the many small businesses selling on Amazon who have tapped into some of the tools and resources [00:15:00] offered to help them succeed and grow. You can learn more about them in our show notes on our website ThisisSmallBusinesspodcast.com. And just a reminder that we want to bring YOU the ultimate listener experience through our podcast too. So if you have thoughts you want to share with us, send us a message to thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com, and if you enjoy listening to This is Small Business, text a link of this episode to your friends right now!

If you’re a handmade small business owner, your small business journey can look different. So that’s why we have Amazon Handmade, our artisan-only community of sellers. So if you’re looking for a selling process on Amazon that fits your needs, check out Handmade at Amazon to learn more or visit our show notes on our website ThisisSmallBusinesspodcast.com.

To learn more about making the move from farmer's markets or in person, to the online marketplace [00:16:00] I reached out to Nicole Leinbach, owner and founder at RetailMinded.com, who's going to help me understand a little bit more about how to navigate the transition from hitting the pavement to riding the online airwaves.

[00:16:13] Andrea: Nicole Leinbach, thank you so much for being on this small business with me today.

[00:16:18] NICOLE: I'm thrilled to be here. Thanks, Andrea.

[00:16:20] Andrea: Tell me a little bit about your background.

[00:16:22] NICOLE: You know, I've been a small business geek since basically forever. I remember being a little girl and walking up and down my local main street with my mom shopping like many moms and daughters do, but I was always drawn to those local main street stores versus the mall. And I've just genuinely appreciated small business. Since then, and always, and while I've of course worked with big, big companies along the way and still do, I simply have a passion for supporting small business. So I found Retailminded.com about 15 years ago. And that came after having national roles with a variety of retailers of all sizes. [00:17:00] So I have a really extensive retail background on the wholesale and retail side. And when I founded retail minded, my goal was to optimize small businesses so that they could wear all those hats that they have to by delivering news education and support through retail minded.

[00:17:16] Andrea: So let's jump into going online. Can you tell me why you think small businesses should consider moving online and what the benefit is?

[00:17:23] NICOLE: You know, very simply I think that the path to purchase is not straight. And so we cannot expect a consumer to only go to a brick and mortar store. The desire of one customer is going to be very different than another customer. And we need to make sure that that path to purchase is seamless. So whether you have a brick and mortar store or you sell online exclusively, or you're looking to be everywhere, the option nowadays is basically, yes, please, be everywhere you can.

[00:17:51] Andrea: And when do you think is a good time to go online for a brick and mortar?

[00:17:55] NICOLE: I think you need to be online right away personally. [00:18:00] So as a small business owner, you can expect customers to look in a variety of places to discover you. You know myself, I am a 44 year old woman who has habits that have shaped me over the years, but my 20 something year old niece shops very differently than let's say I do. Or my 60 something year old mother-in-law would shop very differently than I do. So we need to remember that the generational preferences of how consumers shop are also different, but data tells us that online is where part of their destination or discovery begins at across every generation.

[00:18:35] Andrea: Ok, what I'm hearing is you really have to go where your customer, your target customer, is going and really understand not only whether they're going online but also where they are online. I personally usually either go directly to the store, or go to Amazon.

[00:18:54] NICOLE: Absolutely. That user journey is so unique though, to each customer, which is why that path to purchase varies. [00:19:00] There are a lot of generations that prefer to know what their peers think before they know what a brand cares to share. You know, the Amazon four-star store would share real time reviews of what customers are sharing. And that's the reality of how customers make decisions. They want to hear what their peers think. And again, that does cross the generations. So whether it's in real time being updated through signage or whether it's being shared by a peer to peer site, or sometimes it could just be two people interacting via text or email sharing their preference. Hey, I bought this, check this out, or those affiliate links that a lot of people are sharing nowadays as well.

[00:19:40] Andrea: Word of mouth. As a podcaster I think word of mouth is probably the most powerful type of promotion there is. So what are the things that you think a small business should consider before they go online? How do they know that they’re ready to be online?

[00:19:55] NICOLE: Yeah, great question. You know, when you're a small business, you obviously have a lot of hats. [00:20:00] But one of the things that hopefully is not intimidating is also a lot of the technology available to them. And the one thing I always remind small businesses is make sure you're looking upfront at the integrations available among those technologies. So what does that mean? It means that if you are to go to a company that provides an eCommerce template, so you can build your own eCommerce site, you wanna also make sure that it integrates into marketplaces so that your inventory is totally being managed in control across in different places, or you wanna make sure that you have an understanding of sell through from one site to another site, because the reality is, is if you're really gonna boost yourself to be on that path to purchase no matter where customers go, you will be selling at a lot of different destinations, right?

So your website alone, isn't going to be the only place you're going to have marketplaces like Amazon to sell on. You wanna make sure all of that is visible [00:21:00] so that you have full clarity to what's being sold. What's missing what you need to do. You wanna have, of course, inventory management, you wanna have supply chain, clarity, logistics, the transportation, the shipping, the labeling, all of this stuff can be very easily managed, but you need to have that integration. I go back to that keyword there's integration, make sure that you have technology that is seamless to work with one another. There's a lot of companies that integrate into Amazon, right. So that they are actually optimized and they've been approved by Amazon to be among the tech partners that support them, whether it is through let's say warehouse distribution. Right. So even though Amazon has its own warehouses, many sellers also have their own warehouses that Amazon still ships from. So there's a lot of variables and that's where the of course challenges come in. You need to make sure that there's clarity in your own understanding of your inventory and how it's being sold through [00:22:00] external marketplaces like Amazon. And then if you have your own website, how does that work too? Because your own website is a whole other ballgame, right? So there's gonna be a lot of layers there, and that's why it's so important to upfront ask what integrates. You might find a technology and think this sounds savvy and great, but if it doesn't have a lot of integrated partners, you might wanna question if it's really for you.

[00:22:26] Andrea: What other things should small businesses owners keep in mind?

[00:22:30] NICOLE: Keep learning, you know, there's a lot of great resources out there, like podcasts. The trade shows that are available are so important to go to it's where you source your inventory. And while there is sourcing available online, of course, getting to these real physical live trade shows also bring to life experiences that not only allow for connectivity of networking, but also learning from the companies like we were just discussing the technology partners and the various industry leaders who can share with you, [00:23:00] why or how. I really do encourage those small business decision makers to wanna keep learning because there's constantly evolution in retail and in commerce and specifically in selling online.

[00:23:14] Andrea: Oh yea, staying up to date is incredibly important because everything is shifting so quickly. So how do you leverage both the positives of being in person and online for a better customer experience?

[00:23:28] NICOLE: I actually think that's a super exciting question. The reality is, is that is our world today. That's not just how we shop. So when you say online or brick and mortar, it's also how we live. We communicate the same way to our partners, our children, our coworkers, that way we see them sometimes, but then we virtually stay in touch other times, you know, so it is the reality of 2022 and certainly going to be the reality of the future. So I think managing it and finding balance is absolutely essential. [00:24:00] And those that actually pick one or the other, it's not that that's necessarily bad or wrong, but it's definitely, um, not leveraging the best and the most exciting things that they could bring to life because life comes full circle, are when you blend your digital and brick and mortar. Let’s just say, if you have a website and you don't have a physical brick and mortar experience, there are still brick and mortar ways. And when I say brick and mortar, really what I'm meaning is just being in person. You can do that by doing a pop-up shop or being a part of your community, local, you know, farmers markets, if it were to make sense, but you could also do it by just being a part of the community. Being a part of lots of chambers of commerces and different variety of groups have ways for you to get in touch and be there like once a month, and who are your local other business leaders that you can just connect with?

So if you're in the conversation in a real-life way, not just from behind the screen, [00:25:00] that does contribute to your local economy and to your local understanding and to your best interest of really just consumer growth as well. I think it's so important to understand consumers. In both that digital landscape, but also the real-world landscape. So even if you don't have, let's say four walls to support your business in a way that allows consumers to connect with you and still be a part of experience, you can connect with consumers, because I do think that will ultimately impact some of the choices you make in whether it's inventory or marketing or communication or social media sharing.

[00:25:32] Andrea: Considering that not a lot of businesses start out with a large budget, do you think it's better for me to just go in scrappy as long as I'm going or really get set up first before I’m officially active online?

[00:25:47] NICOLE: I'm gonna use my own real-life example here at Andrea. So, you know, I've had retail minded for over 15 years and along the way, launched a variety of extensions of the business. In May of 2023 [00:26:00] I'll launch yet another extension, but we've, you know, officially started the conversation it's called stimulate and it is a B2B trade show within the sexual wellness category. And so in doing that to your point, is it totally polished and perfect yet? No, it is not. Is it ready for a full reveal? Probably not to the best that it could be, but have we launched it? Heck yes, we have. Because that is what you need to do. You just need to push ahead and move forward because the conversation just has to start happening. There's always gonna be an opportunity to improve. There's always gonna be an opportunity to say, Hey, we could have done better, but if we don't put it out there, we're never gonna get those strides. Moving ahead. So. Hopefully that answers their question in regards to do I think people should wait. No, I think that pausing too long actually just takes them backwards. Make sure that it's not, you know, so scruffy that if people were to look at it, you might turn them off instead of say, Hey, I'm curious, of course, [00:27:00] but people do have a very compassionate understanding of “its business.” And in this case, it's small business and small business has a lot of heart.

[00:27:08] Andrea: Is there any other advice you’d like to share?

[00:27:10] NICOLE: I think when you're a small business owner, you have to accept that with success will often come failure or at least set back. So sometimes your efforts won't always be what you wanna gain from them. So your effort might be. I'm going to move forward by 10 strides and we're gonna gain, you know, this much revenue this year, but instead something happens, whether it's something like COVID that you have no control over, or maybe supply chain impacts something that you really invested in, or possibly consumers in marketing. And let's just say, celebrities might influence a shift in consumer behavior. Those are unexpected challenges that are very realistic. Don't let that take you so far backwards that you don't still move ahead. Sometimes being paralyzed is the biggest problem of all. So take a deep breath, analyze it, consider what you can do [00:28:00] and move ahead. But I see too much pause. Small business owners take such long pauses before they move ahead sometimes that it hurts them.

[00:28:10] Andrea: Nicole. Thank you so much for being on This is Small Business today. It was a pleasure to have you.

[00:28:15] NICOLE: Thank you for having me, Andrea.

[00:28:19] HOST: That was Nicole Leinbach from Retailminded.com. I think that going online can be overwhelming when you think about making the process of discovering and purchasing your products easier for customers. The journey may not be the same for everyone, but it definitely deserves strong considerations like, when and where you show up in a way that makes sense for you and doesn’t add extra work. So, some of the key takeaways for taking your small business online that I’m adding to my small business playbook after speaking with Ruby and Nicole are:

• Think about how your product compares to everything else out there that is similar. Before you’re ready to show the world, it’s good to evaluate where you stand among the competition, [00:29:00] that way you can meet customer expectations once you go online and they discover your product. If you want to learn more about standing out among the competition, I recommend you listen to episode 2, Eva Jane stands out in the crowd, with Eva Jane Bunkley if you haven’t already.
• So, once you have a quality product, think about the best places to reach your customers. What is the right channel for your product and for your customer? You can try different channels depending on your specific goals at a given time as a business. Maybe to start off, you want to go the route that Ruby went in and start at farmer’s markets to test out your product and then expand to social media, on a direct-to-consumer website, or a marketplace like Amazon. Don’t forget the power of being both online and in person too. And learn to leverage both for your business. This doesn’t mean you need to have a dedicated brick and mortar, but it could be through networking events, pop-ups, or even some placements in local shops. [00:30:00] As Nicole said, be everywhere you can be in a way that enables you to connect with your target customers. And think about how product discovery differs across generations.
• When you do decide to go online, it doesn’t have to be perfect. So as Ruby mentioned, don’t spend a ton of money on getting set up online and instead think about how you spend that money since you could instead be using it to make your product quality better. And Nicole used the example of her own website launch. You can make it better as you go, but of course, don’t make it sooo scrappy that you deter customers from connecting with your brand.
• And finally, leverage technology to have the ability to completely integrate your small business across marketplaces. Before you go all in with one company, consider if you will be able to grow the way you want to grow without having to switch to another solution later on. Make sure you have technology that is seamless to work with one another.

[00:31:00] Definitely all lessons to add to my small business playbook – and I’m excited to see how my lessons learned have continued to grow. That's it for This is Small Business today.

On the next episode I will be talking to a small business that all dog lovers like myself will enjoy. We’ll talk about what it takes to hire a super team who is as committed to the mission and vision of your small business as you are. And when your mission and vision is to provide quality treats for your best friend dog or cat… it’s especially important to make sure that your team is onboard. Meanwhile, if you like what you heard, subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and we want to know what you think so leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or email us at (thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com) with episode ideas.

Until next time – This is Small Business, I'm your host Andrea Marquez -- Hasta luego -- and thanks for listening!

CREDITS: This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, [00:32:00] with technical and story production by JAR Audio. [00:32:10]