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Ep. 48: Business Loans Dos and Don’ts
Learn about business loans.
Money is such an integral part of your business. So when the time comes and you need to secure more, where do you start? Who do you turn to? We’ve got Iman Cotton, loans officer with CDC Small Business Finance to guide us through it. Iman says that a good place to start is by thinking, “something that sounds too good to be true, probably is.”Learn how to best prepare you and your business for a loan.
In this episode you’ll hear:
(01:39) How do you find a good lender?
(03:29) What documents do you need to apply to a small business loan?
(04:31) Mistakes small business owners make when they want to apply for a loan.
(07:34) Now that you have the loan, what happens if you’re struggling to pay it back?
Takeaways:
1 -The first step is looking for a lender, the place to start is at institutions you have a relationship with. And be sure to check out all of your options, traditional banks are a great start but also check in with local SBA district offices. Do your homework and feel confident about which lender and loan is best for you before signing on the dotted line.
2 - Get all your paperwork in order. For startups, have your business plan, financial projections and your completed personal tax return on hand. Existing businesses are going to need personal and business tax returns completed and financial statements.
3 - There are definitely some things to avoid. Don’t spend money before you know you can finance the entire cost of your venture. Hire professionals when it comes to things you might not be qualified to do, like taxes. Be careful not to write off all of your revenue in order to keep your taxable income down. Don’t borrow more than you need.
4 - Be transparent with your lender if your financial plan goes awry. Things don’t always go as planned. If you’re struggling to hold up your end of the bargain, being open and honest is imperative.
00:00:01
Andrea Marquez: Money is always top of mind for an entrepreneur. You need it to be able to start, grow, pay yourself, your employees. The list goes on and on and on. And one way to fund your business is through loans. I don't know if you feel like this, but to me, loans are super scary. I've always been told to never spend money I don't have. What will happen if I miss a payment? How can I make sure I'll be able to pay it on time? Where do I even apply for loans? How do I find out if I qualify? If you've never applied for a loan before, it can feel like a daunting process. So let's break it down together. I'm Andrea Marquez and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about business loans.
00:00:47
Iman Cotton: Each financial institution has credit enhancement products such as loans, government-guaranteed loans, state-guaranteed loans. They even also have lines of credits and possibly more products. Then there's non-traditional lending organizations such as a certified development company or a CDC, and they are created to help business owners access capital. There's also community development financial institution who provides access to affordable financial products and services in underserved communities.
00:01:19
Andrea Marquez: That's Iman Cotton. She's a loan officer with CDC Small Business Finance. And before that she worked in banking with loads of traditional institutions. Iman just listed a bunch of different options that are available to small business owners. But before you start applying for a loan, first you need to figure out who's going to be your lender.
00:01:39
Iman Cotton: Start with your deposit relationship or start with your actual bank that you're working with. So I'm huge on relationships and I love relationships because I love the guidance and I want to work with like-minded individuals and people who believe in me and will champion whatever it is that I'm doing. So who's your deposit relationship with? Also, you want to explore and research the SBA District Office in your area, and then there's other resource partners such as the SBDC and SCORE, and they can help with business plans, with different resources, with different lending partners.
00:02:15
Andrea Marquez: And there's a few red flags to keep in mind while you're trying to find a lender.
00:02:19
Iman Cotton: You want to ensure that they're an actual lender. So for an example, there's a Merchant Cash Advance or MCA. This is not a loan, this is an advance on your receivables that you're able to secure in the event you accept debit and credit card payments. But again, an MCA is not a loan. It's an advance on your future receivables where you pay back a percentage of your daily sales as the repayment.
00:02:46
Andrea Marquez: And you've heard this one before, but...
00:02:49
Iman Cotton: Something that sounds too good to be true, it probably is. So those loans that you can get approved in days or it's low doc or no doc or quick documents, you want to be leery of those because you may have an extremely high annual percentage rate or APR. And then also, if they can't disclose the APR or the annual percentage rate, be leery.
00:03:14
Andrea Marquez: Honestly, I apply that to all of my life. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. So when you've done your research and figured out what loan and lender works best for you, you may be ready to apply. Let's get into what documents you'll need.
00:03:29
Iman Cotton: If you're a startup business, you want to ensure that you have a business plan and financial projections. We want to see that you have your personal tax return completed for the current year. If you're an existing business, you want to ensure that you have your current personal and business tax returns completed and that their current and accurate. We want to see that you also have interim financial statements such as an interim profit and loss statement and an interim balance sheet. Being aware of your current debt load and cash position is extremely important. That way we can have an intelligent conversation and I can help possibly quarterback the situation to make suggestions or recommendations, how to better prepare yourself in the event that I don't have a solution for you today. If the answer is no today, how can we turn that no into a yes or what's the actual game plan?
00:04:22
Andrea Marquez: Now, let's get into what you should avoid doing when you want to apply for a small business loan. The first is, don't spend money until you know can finance the whole cost.
00:04:32
Iman Cotton: So for instance, if you have construction or tenant improvements that you need for a new location that you're looking to lease or to have your business run out of. If the construction is $200,000 and then it happens to increase to $250,000, if you've already started that project and the project increases, you might run the chance where you can't receive financing because some lenders may not go into a project that's started to finance it.
00:05:04
Andrea Marquez: The second mistake is not getting help when you need it.
00:05:07
Iman Cotton: We have a lot of clients that have to get amendments because of their tax returns just being completely erroneous because they tried to do them themselves.
00:05:18
Andrea Marquez: The third mistake is running too many personal expenses to reduce taxable income. Iman says, this is the biggest mistake small business owners tend to make.
00:05:27
Iman Cotton: For instance, if your revenue is $10 million a year and you want to apply for a loan, but you write all of your expenses off to where now your net profit or net income is negative $2 million, we look at the negative $2 million versus the $10 million in revenue. So we more so care about profit and net income versus the revenue amount. So be cautious to not write all of your revenue off to reduce your taxable income.
00:06:00
Andrea Marquez: The fourth mistake is taking more money than you actually need.
00:06:04
Iman Cotton: It can ultimately put you in a tight cash flow situation. But we do our due diligence to ensure that we are not putting our clients in a worse off situation and that they can actually afford what they're actually requesting. And the use of funds is a legitimate use of funds. So within requesting money, what you say you'll use the money for, you have to use the money for that. We're not financing money for you to personally live off of. Keep that in mind. This is strictly for the business and you want to get exactly what you need
00:06:39
Andrea Marquez: And to make sure you can actually pay back the money you're borrowing, Iman says that you need to have a business plan and 24 months of financial projections.
00:06:48
Iman Cotton: You're sitting down, setting the road map of what you anticipate your sales to be, what you anticipate your cost of goods, the expenses, the payroll, just the overall operating expenses, so you can actually arrive at the net profit that you want to. So it's like backing into the numbers and creating that road map so you can have a plan to go off of to generate the amount of revenue that you need to pay back the loan and to cover all of your expenses.
00:07:17
Andrea Marquez: Let's say you finally got the loan, congrats. Now you need to make sure you keep up with those payments because there are consequences to not being able to pay back your loan. But if things don't go the way you planned, Iman says that you need to be transparent with your lender so that they can help you get through it.
00:07:33
Iman Cotton: The goal is not for our borrowers to default on the loan. So it's just about being transparent and communicating and trying to set in place a workout plan and going from there. Assuming they can't pay back because the business is closing, then the lender would come in to liquidate the assets and work with the borrower to work out any remaining balances. And then they may look at any personal collateral if it was held and things of that nature. But ultimately, one can lose their business and not be eligible for any additional federal lending if they aren't able to pay back the loan.
00:08:08
Andrea Marquez: That was a lot of information on how you can secure a loan. Iman did a great job of simplifying the process, but all this information can get a little bit overwhelming. So if you're still unsure about whether a loan is the best option for you.
00:08:22
Iman Cotton: Don't be fearful to at least have the conversations now about what goals you have for your business. I always say, don't call me after you've quit your job. Call me before you leave that place of employment. Get comfortable with no when applying for anything or when you're just trying to get your business off the ground. The more you hear no, the more you can also hear yes.
00:08:53
Andrea Marquez: That was Iman Cotton, a loan officer. Getting comfortable with hearing no is a great piece of advice to end on. As an entrepreneur, you might be hearing it a lot. I hope this episode helped make loans a little less scary. Let me know how you're getting prepared to find or apply for a loan or if there's any advice that stood out to you. We covered a lot in this episode, so if you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon. com/ podcasts.
That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business brought to you by Amazon. If you liked what you heard, make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And we would love to know what you think, so please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com with your thoughts.
Until next time, This Is Small Business. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.
Ep. 47: Strategies for Success as a Woman in Business
Build a successful business.
Being a woman in business can come with its challenges but with the right tools – it can become a journey of empowerment and growth. Just ask Katy Luxem, the CEO and founder of Big Dill Pickleball, who stands out in the sporting goods industry with her products. She’ll share the story behind why she started Big Dill Pickleball, some insights on how to succeed in ecommerce, and how she dealt with being a female founder in a male-dominated industry. You’ll also hear from Deepa Purushothaman, the Founder of re.write, Executive Fellow at Harvard Business School and the author of The First, The Few, The Only. Deepa has spent most of her time helping women in the corporate world, so she accumulated a ton of advice that she’ll be sharing with us – like the importance of community.Unlearn some ideas about what it means to be a woman in business and learn the benefits that can come from being a female founder.
In this episode you’ll hear:
(01:31) How Katy started Big Dill Pickleball
(03:20) How using branding and differentiation is essential if you want to succeed in ecommerce.
(05:20) The importance of building community and having a supportive network as a female founder.
(07:42) What you need to unlearn about what it means to be a woman in business.
(10:48) How to navigate issues that are out of your control.
(12:33) The benefits of being a woman in business
Takeaways:
1 - To succeed in ecommerce, Katy says you need to focus on two things: Branding and differentiation. This will set you apart from the competition and make your products more memorable.
2 - Community building is key. We’ve heard this a lot on This is Small business, but making sure you have a safe community of entrepreneurs who share similar struggles is important because sometimes all you need to do is talk.
3 - Deepa says that there’s a few things you need to unlearn about what it means to be a woman in business: The first is feeling like you’re not enough which Deepa says is a universal feeling amongst women who are balancing so many things in addition to work. And the second is feeling the need to overperform to keep your job – even when you get to the top.
4 - When you get dismissed or aren’t taken seriously, remember that it doesn’t reflect on you. All you can do is control how you react. Deepa says that we’ve been conditioned to always be “nice” so try to get out of that mind set and stand your ground – which is easier said than done.
5 - The barrier to entrepreneurship is low and you’ll learn along the way, so don’t hold yourself back from starting because you feel like you aren’t prepared.
6 - Remember that power comes from within you. Deepa says that you can’t control how people react, but you can control how you show up – and that’s where true power comes from.
00:00:02
Deepa Purushothaman: How are corporate cultures changing? How do we actually advance women? Because I was finding a lot of the women that were approaching me were in senior levels, but when they took the seat, they weren't in full voice or in full power.
00:00:12
Andrea Marquez: Getting into entrepreneurship as a woman comes with its own set of challenges. You might feel the need to try twice as hard to prove that you're qualified. And even though women are increasingly making their mark in the business world, gender biases still exist. I'm Andrea Marquez and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about being a woman in business.
00:00:40
Deepa Purushothaman: We conform, we couture, we edit ourselves to fit into spaces, and part of what I want us to realize is if we wait till later, till we show up in the big seats to actually show up as ourselves, it gets harder. We need to show up as ourselves along the way. That's actually how we find power.
00:00:57
Andrea Marquez: That's Deepa Purushothaman, an executive fellow at Harvard Business School and the founder of Rewrite.
00:01:03
Deepa Purushothaman: The Rewrite is about advancing that conversation in corporates. It's starting to really think about culture change and ideas of sacrifice and getting ahead very differently, and it's also doing research that is much needed on how we actually make the workplace healthier and happier for people to thrive.
00:01:19
Andrea Marquez: Deepa has done a lot in business, among which she was a senior executive and wrote a book about how women of color can redefine power in corporate America called, The First, The Few, The Only. I can't wait for you to hear her helpful advice throughout the episode. But first, let's hear from Katy Luxem, the founder and CEO of Big Dill Pickleball. Big Dill Pickleball is a pickleball, paddle and gear company that focuses on the fun and inclusive elements of the sport. Before starting Big Dill Pickleball, Katy spent 15 years working in e-commerce.
00:01:52
Katy Luxem: So my business really came about after seeing repeated mistakes and similar issues that a lot of brands had. I wanted to do a better job, so I started having an interest in making my own brand so I could really control it from start to finish.
00:02:06
Andrea Marquez: Katy knew she wanted to start a business, but first she had to come up with an idea.
00:02:11
Katy Luxem: I was injured playing roller derby in 2019 and I couldn't do that anymore, and I started playing a lot of pickleball, which was a great case study and how accessible it was because I was recovering from broken ankle and broken bones.
00:02:24
Andrea Marquez: And you might have noticed this, but pickleball really started to gain popularity during the pandemic. I feel like it was everywhere.
00:02:32
Katy Luxem: It was now or never. E-commerce was really picking up, and when I went online to buy pickleball gear, I didn't really see anything that was fun and different, and so I felt like I was the perfect person to start the business at that time. And then the last piece really was I always thought if I was to start an e-commerce business, it would need to be something that checked a lot of boxes. So I didn't want anything breakable or liquid or anything super regulated like baby products. I didn't want batteries or expiration dates and I just wanted to keep it simple. And pickleball checked all those boxes. So I founded the brand at the end of 2020 and I sold our first paddle on Amazon in around February 2021.
00:03:12
Andrea Marquez: Katy let her experience in e-commerce guide her as she built her business. She says that if you want to succeed in e-commerce, you need to focus on two things, branding and differentiation.
00:03:26
Katy Luxem: So Big Dill Pickleball Company is really specific in that we sell pickleball paddles and sets to a specific segment of the market, which happens to be a beginners, which is a really big growing market. And then we do that on a platform where a lot of shoppers naturally come for their initial purchase. So we're targeting really specific group, and it's not a super high price point to pro-level players in a specific specialty shop. We're keeping it clear and direct about who we are and who we serve, and our brand reflects that.
Alongside that, I think when I created the product, I wanted to have a pickle on it, which was really smart decision because it's funny and it makes people laugh and it's obviously pickleball, but it's also really eye-catching. So that's been really great for PR and such because if someone's writing an article on pickleball, they'll often just use our paddle as the image because it's a literal face of pickleball
00:04:11
Andrea Marquez: And to figure out what gaps you could fill and how her branding could stand out, Katy did a lot of research.
00:04:17
Katy Luxem: I read a lot of reviews and looked at custom questions and product rankings to see what was actually selling and who the competition was, and I tried to check that no one else was really doing what I was doing. There's definitely a lot of pickleball brands springing up and I wanted to make sure we were the only ones doing that specific thing.
00:04:35
Andrea Marquez: Katy's business has been pretty successful ever since, so she clearly knows what she's doing, but as most women in business do, she still faced a few challenges.
00:04:44
Katy Luxem: I know factually, women face a lot more barriers statistically just with access to funding or networks or even just being taken seriously. I've had issues with male-owned businesses stealing intellectual property or copying our paddles, and of course they're always backed by more funding or they're larger businesses that have more resources, so that's been frustrating.
00:05:06
Andrea Marquez: Unfortunately, this can be the reality for a lot of female founders and even though most of the time these problems can be out of our control, there are ways to navigate them. Deepa says that community building is one of them.
00:05:20
Deepa Purushothaman: I just hold space every month and we have different kinds of conversations and a lot of what I find, to be honest with you, yes, there's articles and there's a lot of, for example, great HBR articles out there for advice and tips and tricks, but I think there's a lot of need to just have these conversations in community. So I just hold space. We just did one earlier this week about how do we start to talk about visioning differently?
And we just did a session on let's talk about what you want for the year. I had someone come in who actually has a background that's very different than traditional corporate and we walked through a very different process. And so I think part of what we need to realize is the way to solve for some of this is to talk about it, but to talk about it in safe spaces. And I think there aren't a lot of safe spaces to have these conversations and share, and I was lucky enough to have some of that, and so part of what I try to do is share that forward.
00:06:06
Andrea Marquez: And having a supportive network is something that helped Katy overcome some of the challenges she faced.
00:06:11
Katy Luxem: I think the more the business grew, the more I started to realize the importance of having that network and collaborating with good people, so I really started saying yes to just a lot of opportunities that I felt like might help me. For example, the governor's office reached out to me about promoting women-owned businesses, and next thing I know I got on this little billboard thing on the freeway, so things like that were a great boost.
00:06:32
Andrea Marquez: Katy also ended up getting a master's degree.
00:06:36
Katy Luxem: And that was really invaluable too, because I ended up having advisors and access to a number of resources in the business community and with the university. It was on full scholarship, so that really came from a place I think in my state of the business community putting his money where its mouth is and saying, “Hey, we're going to focus on supporting entrepreneurs and especially those who are underrepresented in the space.” So I think as I grew my business, those sorts of things had a snowball effect and gave me more confidence to tackle some of those barriers and how to pitch to investors or work with lawyers to combat IP infringement, stuff like that. So there are barriers, but I think the longer I've been in the business, it helps to have those connections and those long-term relationships.
00:07:16
Andrea Marquez: So having a supportive community and network is key, but Deepa also says that we have a lot to unlearn about what it means to be a woman in business.
00:07:26
Deepa Purushothaman: I call it shedding and caring. We need to shed all these messages that just don't serve us. Most women feel like they're not enough. They're not enough at work, they're not enough at home, they're not enough as moms because we're balancing so many plates, so the sense of not enoughness is so universal. I cannot tell universal it is, and I get to see patterns because I've interviewed women.
00:07:47
Andrea Marquez: And sometimes this feeling of not being enough can interfere with your goals. For Deepa, it almost interfered with her making partner at Deloitte.
00:07:56
Deepa Purushothaman: When I made partner, I, by the way, don't have an MBA and I still have not taken a finance class, and I ran billion dollar projects. I'm an executive fellow at Harvard Business School. I don't have my MBA. Had I really thought about it, I wouldn't be in the places and the spaces I am either, and my husband had to actually encourage me. He was like, “Why don't you put your name in the hat?” And I remember thinking, well, I'm not an MBA. That's not made for me. And it all happened. I think we self-select. I think we're not enough. Even when you get to the seats, you think that.
And so we just have to get comfortable realizing, yes, sometimes credentials and titles matter, but a lot of the time it's really more important how you show up, how you pivot, how you recover from failures and how you know what your strengths are. Those are the things that really matter. It's fortitude, it's attitude, and it's attention to following your dreams and having the wherewithal to follow them through. That's really what I think makes us successful. But again, back to the messages we get growing up and the messages we get early in our career, there's a big dissonance between that and what I think it really takes to be successful.
00:08:55
Andrea Marquez: So remember that you are enough. And the other thing that Deepa says we need to unlearn is thinking that we need to work harder to get to that seat, and then feeling like you need to perform to stay there.
00:09:09
Deepa Purushothaman: And I see this a little bit more with women of color, but it's true for all women. But if you are overperforming and some women are telling me I've worked twice as hard, some women saying four times as hard, you are working at a level that we're not fully understanding when you're sitting in leadership seats. And you are burnt out before you even get halfway through your career because of that need to overperform and you've been socialized and conditioned that way growing up, we tell people to look like me. You have to work harder just to get there. And so it's partly unlearning and making work for you what makes sense. And so I have learned that productivity is important, but it can't be my only mantra anymore. That used to really guide a lot of my decisions and how I felt good about my day, and that's not really the only thing that guides me, but I had to do the work to unlearn that, coming from immigrant parents especially.
00:09:54
Andrea Marquez: I relate to that because I come from immigrant parents too, and it's very applauded to overwork yourself. And if you're tired because of it, then you're doing something right, so it's taken me a while to unlearn that. So far we've talked about a few things to unlearn and that building a community is important, but how do you deal with the things that are out of your control, like not being taken seriously?
00:10:20
Deepa Purushothaman: I want to say I think that that's universal. I made partner in my early thirties. I am Indian by descent. I look younger than my age. And so I cannot tell you how many times I would be dismissed when I walked in a room because I couldn't possibly be in charge, or my last name is 13 letters long. And people would ask me when I came to this country or how I learned to speak English. And those things used to really bother me and make me feel like, what am I doing that is maybe suggesting I don't have your qualifications or I don't belong? And as I've gotten older, this has taken some time and I realized and meeting so many women who are struggling with the same sorts of things. I'm now in a place where I realize some of that is about them, it has nothing to do with how I'm showing up or what I'm doing or what I'm wearing or how educated I am.
That's about their issues. And all I can do is find a place where I practice my responses now. So when someone says to me, “Oh, your name is so hard to pronounce,” I will now very flatly, without a lot of emotion, say, “But you've learned how to say Arnold Schwarzenegger's name. You can learn how to say mine.” And it doesn't have to be offensive, but I think sometimes we've been taught to be nice. We haven't been taught to stand our ground, and we've also been taught we're doing something to elicit that sort of feedback or that sort of feeling. And honestly, I'm not. That is really about them and I've gotten to that place, but it's taken a long time.
00:11:32
Andrea Marquez: So make sure you stand your ground. That's a very important message. Growing up, I remember I always felt uncomfortable correcting people when they mispronounced my name. I'm still working on it, but hearing Deepa talk about her own experiences makes me feel better about correcting people in the future. Okay, so we've talked about a lot of the challenges that women might face in entrepreneurship and in business. Here are some of the benefits to being a woman in business too.
00:11:59
Deepa Purushothaman: I think a lot of women who are entrepreneurs, some of them start in entrepreneurship, but a lot of them leave corporate. And I will tell you a lot of the women that I work with in the last few years left corporate to go found their own companies to create the cultures and do the work that meant something to them, and they couldn't find ways to do it in corporate. I'm not suggesting that's the only way, but I think a lot of people pivot because they feel like I can create my own dreams and work in a different way, so I think it's really important to understand that.
00:12:23
Andrea Marquez: Hopefully you're feeling inspired. Katy reminded us that the barrier to entry for entrepreneurship, especially e-commerce, can be pretty low. So...
00:12:32
Katy Luxem: Go for it. There's a lot of people doing it that are probably not as intelligent or not as experienced as yourself, and you might as well just take a stab at it. Especially to e-commerce, it's pretty accessible if you want to try something. I started with I think two boxes of 50 paddles each, so it wasn't a huge initial investment or leap. I was just like, I'll try it and see what happens. And obviously it grew really quickly from there, but you can always do that and have an attempt at it.
00:12:58
Andrea Marquez: You don't have to have everything set in place before you start a business. And as we've heard on many episodes of This is Small Business, it's okay to learn as you go and make mistakes.
00:13:07
Katy Luxem: I'm a risk-averse person, so that was definitely hard for me when I first started, but there's obviously no way of knowing what those mistakes are going to be at the outset, and I think that's why they call it a journey or whatever.
00:13:19
Andrea Marquez: And you'll learn everything you need to succeed as you work on your business. That's what Katy did.
00:13:26
Katy Luxem: Suddenly we have this influx of inventory or we need storage for this. That's when I started researching that particular issue or asking other people, “Hey, what are you using for this problem?” Or, “Do you have a specific solution you recommend?” The problems you have on day 30 are not the problems you have on day 600, so you can't plan for those things, but you can think about if this is what our numbers were this year, what is it going to look like one year, two years from now? And you can project that out in all aspects of the business. And even if it's not right on, it's really helpful just to prepare you for some of the challenges you might end up facing.
00:13:59
Andrea Marquez: And here's one last piece of advice from Deepa.
00:14:02
Deepa Purushothaman: I think a lot of women wrongly incorporate, and even in entrepreneurship, think that power comes from outside accolades. And so my final thought would be is to remember that power comes from inside you and that people can only take it if you let them take it from you, and that we need to remind ourselves every day that we're powerful and that you get to decide how you show up in spaces. You can't decide or define how people react to you, but you get to decide how you show up, and that's where real power comes from. The women who really are powerful are comfortable with who they are, and they show up in that way at all times in all spaces. So that would be in my advice. It's not easy to get to, but that's what I want to aspire to, and that's what I try and practice in every day.
00:14:41
Andrea Marquez: I love that we're ending with that. Deepa and Katy both made the journey of being a woman in business seem a little less daunting, and I'll definitely be using the advice I learned in my everyday life as well. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. We love hearing from our listeners. One of the best ways to do this is to leave a review in Apple Podcasts, like this one from Janine who said, “Really loved the show. It's simple and to the point. Andrea asks great questions to get to the answers we need. Add it to your must listen to list.” Thank you, Janine.
If you enjoyed this episode or found any of the tips helpful, please, please, please consider leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It helps other people find the show. All you have to do is go to the show page and scroll down until you find the reviews. If you're not sure what to write about, tell us about your favorite episode or guest, or let us know what you'd like to learn about. If you're able to leave a review, thank you. If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy.
Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www. smallbusiness. amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, with technical and story production by Jar Audio.
Ep. 46: How Networking Can Help You Build and Grow Your Business
Leverage your network to grow your business.
Having a solid network can help you meet the right people that will help you grow your business. Just ask Robbie Samuels, a networking expert who got his first few clients by tapping into his network. Robbie shares all his networking secrets so you can know how to get the most out of any networking event and break away from the transactional feeling that comes with it. “I believe that our network is an untapped resource,” he says. “And if we're trying to find people for our programs and to pilot new things – 80 percent of the people that we need to sell to or connect with, we already know. It's a matter of reaching out to that network.”Learn what a successful networking event looks like and what you should be doing before and after to ensure that you’re taking advantage of everything that networking has to offer.
In this episode you’ll hear:
(02:00) Why networking can be uncomfortable and how to overcome that by reframing your mindset.
(04:28) Bagel vs Croissant: How body language can make networking easier.
(06:41) How to prepare for a networking event.
(07:55) How committing can help you stand out.
(08:52) How to use your network to grow your business.
Takeaways:
1 - Reframe your mindset. Instead of thinking of networking as something that’s transactional, think of what you bring to the table. Robbie says that if you’re looking for clients, a way to reframe your mindset is to remember that you’re trying to help people and if you avoid telling people about your business, then you’re limiting your impact.
2 - Be prepared. Before going to a networking event, make sure you know what you're trying to achieve and who you're hoping to talk to. And write a draft of your follow up email, it’ll make following up on the intentions you set easier.
3 - Body language is important. When you’re at networking events try to look for the croissants – groups of people that leave an opening for someone else to join in. And make sure you leave room for other people to come into the groups you’re in too.
4 - Commit to an event. If you’re new to entrepreneurship and are trying to build a network of business savvy people, try consistently going to a networking event. This will help you be more memorable to the organizers and you’ll feel less like a newcomer in that space.
5 - Categorize your network. After you’ve connected with a few people, pull up the list of people you’ve networked with and ask yourself two questions: would they remember my name and would I be happy to hear from them out of the blue? If the answer is yes to both questions, then you rank them out of three for these three categories: how they rate their connection to you, their influence on this topic, and their interest in this topic. If someone scores below a 4 out of 9, then they might not be worth reaching out to.
6 - Make sure to keep following up with your network – even when you don’t need them. Robbies says that your network is like an insurance policy – you’re paying for it in the hopes that you don’t end up using it. And don’t forget to give back to your network, too.
00:00:01
Andrea Marquez: Whatever stage you're at in your business journey, whether you're about to start or already have some entrepreneurial experience, you'll want, and probably need, a solid network to rely on. But how do you build that? Networking events can be awkward. Breaking into groups of people who look like age-old friends is hard. No one wants to interrupt a conversation, but hovering in the background feels almost as bad. If you've ever ended a networking event back to the wall, alone, with no new contacts, it's tempting to write the whole process off and never try it again.But don't worry, there's hope.
I am Andrea Marquez, and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be talking about networking, why it's important, and how to do it well.
00:00:49
Robbie Samuels: I believe that our network is an untapped resource, and if we're trying to find people for our programs and to pilot new things, 80% of the people that we need to sell to or connect with, we already know it's a matter of reaching out to that network.
00:01:05
Andrea Marquez: That's Robbie Samuels. He's recognized as a networking expert by NPR, Forbes, and Harvard Business Review, among others.
00:01:13
Robbie Samuels: So it's about going and discovering who's on your LinkedIn, or maybe your phone contacts, or whatever list you might have near you and figuring out who to prioritize reaching out to, and then actually reaching out to them. They already know you, they trust you. They don't need to see it on your website. My first programs in 2020, I think I sold 30 people into a program with no mention of it on my website. So that's where I think networking is so key, because that trust is already built in.
00:01:38
Andrea Marquez: Going into my career, I've seen how networking correctly can change your life. And even though I still struggled a bit with networking before COVID, I at least felt like I had a grasp on it. But now it's been very difficult for me to get back into it. So before we start talking about how you can network successfully, I think it's important to understand why we find it so uncomfortable and scary.
00:02:01
Robbie Samuels: There was actually a study by Harvard and a few other schools that looked into this. And they really found that people felt that networking makes people feel dirty and icky. And I think it's because most people think of networking as transactional.
So the people in the study who didn't feel that networking was icky, were the more senior executives in a company. Because when they go into a room, they're not going into a room looking for anything. They have things to offer. So they have a budget, they have advice, they have connections, they can make introductions. And so they feel really good about that. And that's the reframe. The reframe is to think about what you bring.
So if you think, “Okay, here's all the experience that I bring, this is the enthusiasm that I have, and if it's a good fit, it's going to be fantastic for this organization as well.” And if you walk into a room with that as opposed to, “All right, I'm looking for a job,” then you make a connection. And as someone who's had to hire people, I can tell you if I you and we hit it off and you submit a qualified resume and you follow through with all the steps that we ask in the hiring process, you've just saved me a huge headache.
And so it is a gift. And so I just think that we have to reframe. It's not that we're looking for clients, it's that we have something of value that would help people. And if we don't tell people, well, then we're limiting our impact in the world. We do this work because we believe we can help people. But if we're not willing to talk about our services, if we're shy about it, then there are people who need us who don't know. They don't even know this is a skill that's out there that can help them. So it's about really reframing what you're walking into the room, and not just that you need something, but that you're there to offer something of real value. Without that, we're all stuck feeling transactional and icky about the experience of networking.
00:03:46
Andrea Marquez: I love the idea of reframing your thought process. Instead of feeling like the interaction is transactional, think about what you offer to the people you want to talk to. As Robbie mentioned, even if you're looking for a job, you still bring something to the table. Don't shy away from talking about your services and yourself. So step one to making networking easier: Reframe your mindset to think about what you have to offer. And another way that can help you get approached by people is body language.
00:04:14
Robbie Samuels: So if you picture walking into a networking event, people are standing in those tight clusters, those shoulder- to- shoulder huddles that are impossible to break into. If you have someone in that group turn their body open a bit and make space for others to join, now it goes from being a closed bagel to being more of a croissant.
And so I teach people how to stand so that they're more approachable. And this is a physical reminder of why you went to the event in the first place. You go to these events to meet people, so don't go there and then stand in the corner with your arms crossed. Because someone like me, who's very outgoing and talks with my hands, is going to stand in front of you and you're going to feel locked there. But also look at the room and see how people are standing and go for the natural openings.
So look for where people are leaving space, and then make sure you do the same. If I train 8 to 10 people out of a room of a hundred, the whole experience of the room will change. Because if you feel welcomed into a room, you're more likely to welcome others. If your first attempts to join a conversation, you feel rebuffed, well, you're probably going to put your walls up and then it's going to be harder for others to approach you as well. So that ripple effect can be really positive if we train folks to do this.
So it's like if you walk into a room and you don't see any openings, the next thing to do is to get in line, get in line for food, and get in line for a drink. It's a natural space where people aren't usually standing with all their besties. Talk about the food and the buffet line. Talk about the drink you're about to order. Ask people's opinion about things.
00:05:41
Andrea Marquez: Body language is really important. At some networking events, I forced myself into those bagels and made some great connections, but doing that isn't always easy. It's intimidating when you can tell that the people talking already know each other. I recently went to a networking event where I decided to stick to being a wallflower. I ended up talking to another wallflower and nothing really came out of it. We just ended up being wallflowers together. But if I knew about the croissants versus bagel strategy, I might've tried looking for the croissants.
So far we've discussed what you can do to make networking a little easier. So now let's take a few steps back and talk about what you can do to prepare yourself for an upcoming networking event.
00:06:23
Robbie Samuels: If you go into the event really being clear about what you're trying to achieve, and who you're hoping to talk to, and you've done some research, and this is where I think being an introvert is better because you'll be more methodical and less haphazard off the cuff. And so if you're going to go well, then why are you going? Why this event? And who are you hoping to meet? Who specifically might be there?
If you have access to a list or maybe you know the sponsors or the speaker or the exhibitors, or who generally, who's the archetype of the person you want to meet? And then my suggestion is that you actually write a draft of your follow-up email. You're not sending it. You're just drafting a message based on the person or the kind of person you're hoping to meet. And if you do that, that really sets your intentions super clear. And now it's a question of following through on your intentions. But you're more likely to have a serendipitous moment if you know what you're looking for.
00:07:15
Andrea Marquez: That sounds like you're manifesting, I've done this for projects, but never for networking. And I think it's such a valuable tip. And now let's get into another tip to make sure your networking experience is successful: Committing.
00:07:29
Robbie Samuels: You just have to put in enough upfront effort to not be a newcomer every time. If you go really sporadically, every four or five months, you're really a newcomer every single time and you have to break in every single time. You want to be memorable and you want to add value. And so that's one way to step into a new space. So it's planting seeds for the future. But that concentrated effort upfront makes the difference versus sort of haphazardly deciding to go to things. For the beginning from January to March, just commit to really being super present in a new space, and do that every quarter and still stay engaged, but you don't have to be as intense the rest of the year.
00:08:08
Andrea Marquez: So now that we have a better understanding of how to prepare and utilize a networking experience, what comes after a successful networking event? How can you utilize the contacts that you've collected to grow your business?
00:08:21
Robbie Samuels: So in my second book, Small List, Big Results, I discuss this in some detail. So I have this process. Let's say you take your LinkedIn, you download your LinkedIn list, and you go through, and the first two questions people have to pass in order to do further consideration is, “Would they remember my name?” And, “Would I be happy to hear from them out of the blue?”
So if the answer is yes to both those questions, I put a little X in that little column. And when I've got a bunch of people in that category, then I say, “Okay, now the question is, I want to know how they rate around their connection to me, their influence on this topic, their interest in this topic.” And for each of those categories, you put a one, a two or a three, three being highest, no half points, no zeros. And the total point value here is nine. If someone scores a four or below, then don't bother reaching out. I mean, don't delete them, but this is not the thing that they're interested in.
Follow-up sounds like something you do after, but if you write that draft follow-up message before you go, you'll be more likely to know what you're looking for. If during the event you track the cards that are higher priority, and you either put them in a separate pocket or you turn down the corner or write a little note on them. And so you have to also plan ahead for how are you keeping track of all these cards. And then if you pre-schedule an hour within a day or two of the event to do follow-up messages, and when you sit down, you've got your draft message, you've identified your priority cards, the likelihood that you're going to follow through with that follow up is very high.
And that's really the success of networking. It isn't the first point of contact. It's when that conversation that you had with one person at one event becomes a relationship because you both schedule time to meet each other again, and then meet each other again, and meet each other again. So this is where I think the virtual and the in-person work so well together.
00:10:08
Andrea Marquez: We used to have to wait up to a year before we'd run into people again at the next conference. But now with video calls part of people's day-to-day, it's easier to reach out and suggest catching up, nurturing new relationships can be simple and unforced. It's also important. Robbie says to think of it as an insurance policy.
00:10:28
Robbie Samuels: I think too often we ignore our network until we need them. When we need a job, or when we suddenly are in a crisis and we need to get another client. And if you pay in every month, in an insurance policy, and you don't really want to need your insurance policy, right, the hope is that you'll never use it, but it's there if you need it. And that's the same thing with our network. You want to give back regularly to your community, whether that's one-on-one conversations, supporting and sharing, making referrals, making introductions. So make sure you're giving back so that if you need something, they're there for you. And if you don't, you're there for a lot of other people and that feels good too.
00:11:05
Andrea Marquez: That was Robbie Samuels, a networking expert and an award-winning author. What a great reminder to end on. I'm sure that'll help reduce the transactional icky feeling you get sometimes when thinking about networking. Let me know if you'll use some of the tips he mentioned in your next networking event. I know I will.
We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon.
If you liked what you heard, make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And we would love to know what you think. So please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone or send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com with your thoughts.
Until next time, This Is Small Business. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez.
Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening.This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.
Ep. 45: How to Use Social Media to Reach Your Audience
Connect with customers through social media.
Social media can help you connect with your audience authentically and foster meaningful growth. Just ask Sahra Nguyen, the founder and CEO of Nguyen Coffee Supply, who uses storytelling to keep her audience engaged. Sahra explains how she figured out what content her audience wants and what performs best on each platform. You’ll also hear from Kat Norton, the CEO of Miss Excel, who went viral on social media and used her online presence to successfully start her business. Kat digs deeper into how to keep up with trends and how to plan your content efficiently. Learn how Kat and Sahra used social media to their advantage and discover actionable strategies – like how to follow trends and create content – to elevate your online presence and reach your audience.
In this episode you’ll hear:
(02:16) How Kat used social media to start Miss Excel
(07:06) How Sahra connects with her audience through social media by sharing her story and being authentic
(09:24) Sahra talks about the challenges to centering the founder’s story in your brand’s social media
(10:19) How Sahra uses data to figure out what type of content works for each platform
(12:41) How experimenting with your social media content can make you go viral and how to take advantage of that virality – even if the content doesn’t align with your brand
(15:50) How to keep up with trends
(18:33) How to create social media content efficiently
Takeaways:
1 - Be authentic. No matter what you’re posting, Kat and Sahra both stressed the importance of being authentic to your brand – especially if you’re planning on following trends.
2 - Don’t be afraid to experiment! Kat says that experimentation is what helped her go viral and Sahra experiments with new types of content on her TikTok. Every brand is different and to find what works best for you, you’ll need to change up your content every now and then.
3 - Don’t feel pressured to follow trends. Sometimes following trends just doesn’t align with your brand and you shouldn’t force it to work – your audience can tell when the content you’re producing isn’t authentic.
4 - If you’re planning on following trends, research the trends and find out what aligns best for your brand, and set guidelines that you or your team needs to follow – this will help get content out faster.
5 - Batch your social media content. In order to create content as efficiently as possible, Kat suggests you divide the work into three days: An ideation day, a performance day where you record all your content, and an editing day.
00:00:01
Andrea Marquez: Social media, it can be a powerful tool for your business if you use it correctly. It can help you get more customers, highlight new products and grow your brand. If you're starting a business, you're probably already trying to figure out how to make social media work for you. How do you keep up with all these trends? Should you even try? What content should you be posting and how often?
To answer these questions, I've enlisted the help of Kat Norton, the founder of the incredibly successful Miss Excel, a company that teaches Microsoft Excel to individuals, businesses, and educational institutions. Kat knows her way around a spreadsheet, and she absolutely rocks the social media landscape. We're going to find out how she does it.
00:00:45
Kat Norton: When it comes to taking these different social media concepts and really boiling them down into those different niche audiences, it really comes down to authenticity. So for me, my three favorite things were Excel, dancing and helping people. So melding those together is what really helped our content take off.
00:01:03
Andrea Marquez: Kat manages to make using Excel fun. Those are two words I never thought I'd say in the same sentence. Miss Excel now has over 2 million followers across all her social media platforms. She'll be sharing the secrets to her growth throughout the episode.
Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Welcome to season four. With more than 60 episodes under my belt, I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, and something that keeps coming up is social media. It's such a powerful tool and can reach so many people if you do it right. So today we'll be talking about social media and how to reach your audience.
00:01:50
Kat Norton: It really happens through infusing our social media content with the element of fun. So whether it's dancing, which is really how our content got started, I was dancing to the different Excel functions on TikTok or now we integrate fun talking videos and we're always just experimenting with what is trending.
00:02:09
Andrea Marquez: Before all of the success, Kat was working a corporate job and then the pandemic hit.
00:02:14
Kat Norton: I had found myself with the start of the pandemic back in my childhood bedroom of my parents' house. I was buried in student debt, really trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, and I started digging into mindset work. I was like, “Why am I playing it small? What can I do?” So I was really going through and unwiring a bunch of limiting beliefs I had that were keeping me at my corporate job, playing it safe when I knew there was something much bigger I wanted to do.
00:02:42
Andrea Marquez: Kat was already teaching Excel on the side, and she loved doing it. So she gets on a call with a friend to figure out a side hustle she could do with her skills.
00:02:51
Kat Norton: And I'll never forget, she goes, “What if you put the Excel tips on TikTok?” And I was like, “TikTok? I have a corporate job. I can't just post myself on TikTok.” And I had so much resistance, but intuitively I knew. I got this lightning bolt hit where I saw it, and I could not shake this thought.
00:03:09
Andrea Marquez: A few days go by and Kat just can't stop thinking about it.
00:03:13
Kat Norton: And I'm in tears so conflicted about making this TikTok account. So I'm like, “You know what? It's going to be a secret.” So I created this secret TikTok account Miss Excel, and the only people who knew I was doing it was my mother and my boyfriend, and I started silently just posting one video a day of these fun Excel tip videos.
00:03:35
Andrea Marquez: And then the views start rolling in.
00:03:37
Kat Norton: By the fourth video, it reaches a hundred thousand views and gets pushed to all these people I know. And then by the sixth video, the CEO of an IT company reaches out and it's like, “Hey, I love your teaching style. I'm looking to create G Suite training videos,” so the Google version of everything I was doing for students, parents and teachers because this is when the schools were going digital, and clearly I'm a Microsoft gal, but I was like, “Okay, I can learn these different products. I'll just take this side hustle.”
00:04:08
Andrea Marquez: After a couple of weeks of posting daily, her first video goes viral.
00:04:13
Kat Norton: And next thing you know I've had a video hit 3. 7 million views, and I had a hundred thousand TikTok followers. And I was like, “Oh my gosh, what do I do with this?”
00:04:22
Andrea Marquez: Kat creates an Instagram account that keeps going viral. In a few months, she gets a few thousand followers across both platforms.
00:04:30
Kat Norton: I had a business coach reach out just being like, “Knock, knock, what you doing over there? It seems like you have a pretty big following and you don't even have a link in your bio.” And I was like, “Whoa, touche.” So I took two weeks off from my day job, and I built the most fun, cool creative Excel course I possibly could think of because at this point if you've seen my content, your girl cannot have a boring course.
00:04:53
Andrea Marquez: She then designs a video Excel training course, and within a few weeks of releasing it, she's already making more money from the course than she does at her job, so she quits.
00:05:04
Kat Norton: And at that point it was still just me in the business, and I cranked out nine more courses across the entire Microsoft Office suite, started bundling them together, selling on webinars, and that's how I scaled it into a multi seven figure business. I have the most incredible team now who really helps us continue to scale this and grow this because I know we're just at the tip of the iceberg given the majority of companies use Excel.
00:05:28
Andrea Marquez: I love that optimism. But Kat started her business off the back of her social media success. She made content she loves, then developed a product to go with it. I think most small business owners do the opposite, start the business first, then work to make a social media strategy that works for them. Our next guest is one of those people.
00:05:47
Sarah Nguyen: I'm a first generation Vietnamese- American born and raised in Boston, Massachusetts. Both of my parents are refugees from the Vietnam War. So that context, that historical context for my family is really important because it's a huge foundation for who I am as a person, my connection to culture and my current business, Nguyen Coffee Supply.
00:06:06
Andrea Marquez: That's the founder and CEO Sarah Nguyen. She buys coffee beans from a farmer in Vietnam and then roasts them in Brooklyn, New York.
00:06:14
Sarah Nguyen: And the reason why I started my company was because prior to this I actually couldn't find a fresh- roasted single- origin, Vietnamese coffee bean, let alone a robust bean anywhere in the U. S market.
00:06:25
Andrea Marquez: After doing some research, Sarah also found out that Vietnam is the second- largest producer of coffee in the world.
00:06:31
Sarah Nguyen: Most people don't know this. And for me, that was an issue around lack of transparency, visibility and representation.
00:06:38
Andrea Marquez: And the way Sarah represents Nguyen Coffee Supply on social media reflects that. She makes sure to keep inclusivity in mind when creating content around her brand.
00:06:48
Sarah Nguyen: Because that's what we need as a coffee community to expand and for the change that we want to create on an institutional and systemic level. This change being how do we be more inclusive of coffee origins that have been historically underrepresented? So in order for us to create this systemic institutional shift, we know that we need to create a narrative shift, and that's why storytelling the video is so powerful for us.
00:07:09
Andrea Marquez: Sarah's background is in documentary filmmaking. She's produced documentaries for PBS, NBC and Vice. So video was the way to go. Sarah's primary social media platform is Instagram, then TikTok, YouTube coming in third. She's done a lot of work around telling the company's origin story, but in general, she likes to focus her content around education and storytelling.
00:07:31
Sarah Nguyen: On our YouTube, we have a whole Vietnamese coffee guide. It's a series where you can learn everything about Vietnamese coffee. We also have a general brew guide on Instagram and TikTok as a combination of the coffee education along with the founder's storytelling and also the cultural community storytelling.
00:07:48
Andrea Marquez: I love that Sarah centers her own story in her business social media. Scrolling through Nguyen Coffee Supply's social media pages made me feel like I was part of the brand. Sarah wasn't just selling coffee, she was building a community. But according to Miss Excel, also known as Kat Norton, using a storytelling approach in your social media might not work for everyone.
00:08:09
Kat Norton: Personally, my brand is a different audience than the Excel brand. The Excel brand is definitely more technical, and they want those tangible tips. So I do think it does depend on the brand, but I always encourage you to test it. Another aspect of that though is people buy from people. So you want to come through and make sure that even if they don't know the story of how I started Miss Excel or they don't care about that, they just want their tips, I make sure my personality is coming through in those videos so that we are connecting, and I'm sitting down, and I'm helping you, and I'm coming through the screen versus just a cold screen with no person behind it.
00:08:42
Andrea Marquez: And even though there's a ton of pros that come with being a founder led brand, Sarah noticed a few cons.
00:08:49
Sarah Nguyen: The challenges are the expectation for someone in my position to constantly play that role of creating content telling stories when I'm also a full- time operator. I'm a solo founder. I'm the CEO, and I'm deeply operating. And so it's all about sustainability for me as a human and for the company.
00:09:07
Andrea Marquez: How do you learn to adapt your social media strategy based on what your audience wants? Sarah uses data.
00:09:13
Sarah Nguyen: Each platform is very unique, and what works on one platform, may or may not work on the other platform. I think there are instances where we can use a piece of content as the root and then iterate, cut it up and repurpose for different platforms. Sometimes that works, and sometimes it won't, and sometimes you'll just need a complete different content strategy altogether.
We spent a lot of time just comparing content strategy and performance and data on both Instagram and TikTok. And what we often found was a piece of content that did well on TikTok would not do well on Instagram and vice versa. And then we would dissect the reasons why. Really short form six seconds do really well on TikTok, but that may not be as engaging on Instagram because Instagram, I think, there's a little bit more space and bandwidth for maybe 15 seconds. I know it sounds wild, but 15 seconds, it makes a big difference, 15 to 30 seconds up to 60 seconds for that more extended education of storytelling.
00:10:04
Andrea Marquez: And if you try to post anything longer than that-
00:10:08
Sarah Nguyen: It'll just flop because people don't stare at their phones for three minutes.
00:10:11
Andrea Marquez: Kat has a slightly different approach. She would use the same video but would change up the audio depending on what's trending on each platform.
00:10:19
Kat Norton: So what we do is we film and edit everything off of the app so we don't have to deal with watermarks or anything like that. If we did make a specific piece of content for a certain platform, maybe there is a certain song trending on TikTok that's not available on Instagram, in that case, we would make something more TikTok specific. But overall, it really comes down to creating that content once and then getting it into the right format and underlaying the right music.
00:10:47
Andrea Marquez: We'll dig deeper into trends in a minute, but before that, I wanted to quickly go over how Sarah uses TikTok and Instagram. She says that TikTok is treated like a discovery platform where they test and try new things, but she's not as experimental with her Instagram account.
00:11:02
Sarah Nguyen: Let's say there was someone new who was discovering us for the first time when they go visit our Instagram page, can they understand our brand immediately in the first nine blocks? Whereas TikTok, it's like random content all day, and you can go to a TikTok page and you don't even know anything about it. So then that was a silly funny video.
00:11:18
Andrea Marquez: And according to Kat, the most important thing is trying new things because you never know what'll strike big.
00:11:24
Kat Norton: I feel like that experimenter's mindset is something that really helped me go viral 10- 20 plus times at this point because I'm not really going into it trying to force something and coming from that lack space energetically like, “Oh, I need this to happen. I need this to go viral or my business won't do well.” I go into it as like, “Let's try this. Let's see how it works.” And then it's a matter of, “Okay, now we've just up leveled. We have hundreds of thousands of followers or millions of followers,” which for me, that was a big part of my story. In three days, I went from a thousand followers to over a hundred thousand and I was like, “Oh, what do I do?” And that's really where layering in the business acumen comes into play and structuring something around that that will serve that audience.
00:12:08
Andrea Marquez: Even if the viral video doesn't really align with your brand, you can still make the most of it.
00:12:13
Kat Norton: I hear this all the time where people go viral with the most random video, and they're like, “What the heck? My account is about this, but I went viral on a knitting video,” or something so random that's not core to the brand. And I look at it, I'm like, “It is still a business opportunity.” For example, I had hundreds of thousands of followers, no mailing list, no product, and a business coach just happened to reach out to me being like, “Hey, I noticed you have a lot of followers there and zero product.” And I was like, “Oh, light bulb moment. Maybe I should get that course out there.”
The right steps will find you, so I wouldn't worry as much about that. In due time, it all does work out. But if you do have the extra time to start researching how to grow an online or digital business, if that's the space you're in or whatever space you're in, I do recommend doing that. But don't let it hold you back because a lot of the times you can't even predict what's going to happen. And that has been my entire trajectory of my business is just learning how to pivot and being really adaptable and just being ready when the opportunities come my way to be able to be like, “All right, let's do it and not get overwhelmed.”
00:13:19
Andrea Marquez: And, of course, we can't talk about social media without mentioning trends. I feel like it must be so stressful to stay up to date with all the new trends and figure out which ones to follow. Sarah spent a whole year experimenting with trends on TikTok.
00:13:31
Sarah Nguyen: I think from a team bandwidth perspective, it felt like we were constantly chasing something. At times, it could be decentering in our brand identity, brand voice, brand mission. Now we're at a place in our marketing strategy and juncture where we're not focused on trends. If something comes up and we feel really inspired and we feel like it's aligned with another pillar, we can engage, but we're no longer actively following, actively tracking and quickly creating content to hop onto that trend.
00:13:59
Andrea Marquez: So when Sarah experimented with trends, she realized that it doesn't really work for her brand. She only hops onto a trend if she feels inspired and it aligns, but every business is different. So if you do want to actively follow trends, here's Kat breaking down the process.
00:14:15
Kat Norton: When you see a trend that you like, I always mark it down, and typically when we create content, we batch it. So I'll every week or so go through and look at those different video ideas that I saved down, those different trending songs and music and then go after them in those times.
00:14:31
Andrea Marquez: Okay, so step one is research. Find the trends you want to follow and write them down.
00:14:36
Kat Norton: And depending on the size of your team, you may have certain things in place where the whole team has to go in and approve the content or the script. And I would really recommend in cases like that, taking a step back and looking at where you can optimize that process.
00:14:50
Andrea Marquez: And step two, set guidelines for which trends you want to follow. Maybe you want to avoid songs with curse words or prefer a specific genre of music that aligns with your brand. Having the specifics on hand can speed up the approval process if you or your team wants to get something out quickly.
00:15:06
Kat Norton: If you have an awesome content creator on your team and they see a trend and they know they have that freedom to be able to go and pick up their phone and knock that out and get it in right when the trend is taking off, that's something that I would really want to enable them to do by simply adding in those guidelines of the different pieces and elements that they would need to follow in order to get that content approved.
00:15:27
Andrea Marquez: And if you plan on following trends-
00:15:29
Kat Norton: Do something that does feel authentic and light you up. So there's a big trend around realness on social media and authenticity and honesty and just coming through like we are friends versus coming through as like, “I am reading off my teleprompter.” People can tell, one, that lacks authenticity if someone's just reading off the teleprompter looking really stiff. If you look uncomfortable, they feel uncomfortable.
00:15:52
Andrea Marquez: So be authentic to you and your brand.
00:15:59
Kat Norton: There are constantly tons of trends going on at all times. So for me, if I hear a song or if it sparks a certain idea, if you're going through and making those connections, then I think it's a great piece of content to run with. However, if you are struggling to force something that's a circle into a square hole or whatever that saying is, that is really where I'd be like, “Okay, this doesn't feel as aligned.” Because a big part of content is it is an energy transmission. So when you are going through and creating that content, the user could tell if it's authentic or not. They could tell if you're forcing it or not. So I like to just go after the things that excite me. If the trend feels really good, if it matches with my content style, then I'm like, “Okay, this is something I want to create.”
00:16:41
Andrea Marquez: Even if you know exactly what your content will look like and where you want to put it, you still have to make it. Kat figured out how to create content as efficiently as possible.
00:16:52
Kat Norton: I usually make content maybe two days per month. I'll go through and batch content every couple of weeks. I have a really awesome team now, but before all of that, I was a one woman show from designing the courses, editing the courses, creating the content, customer service. We're now 17,000 students. I was doing it all, and now we have a team of 12. So that definitely helps a lot from the perspective of they can take old dance videos that I have and pair them with different Excel tricks and still be pumping out content every day on the platforms.
00:17:25
Andrea Marquez: That's one way to free up the founder from constantly making content. But if you don't have a team of 12, there are still ways to make the process manageable. Here's how Kat suggests to break it down.
00:17:34
Kat Norton: I'm doing all different activities that are tapping into that right side of the brain. So I'll be going through and taking a walk in nature, meditating and staying out of my more analytical mind. That's where you got your giant to- do list, your iced coffee, you're knocking things out, and I stay more in that flowy seat, and then I find that the ideas more easily just flow right through. I mark them down.
00:17:57
Andrea Marquez: Then there's the performance day.
00:17:59
Kat Norton: You don't have to get all dressed up every day. If you're filming every day, you can just really go through and take that one day, make your setup.
00:18:06
Andrea Marquez: And finally editing days.
00:18:08
Kat Norton: That's when you're in the zone. I always say it's like my messy bun and I'm sitting there just grinding it out and making those videos. So really separating it out by the different energy types helps you capitalize in each of those areas to be at max capacity versus being 50% all flowy and then trying to get on the camera. And then it really helps to separate it out that way for myself.
00:18:29
Andrea Marquez: It sounds so easy when it's broken down like that. So I was wondering what does the next phase of social media look like?
00:18:38
Kat Norton: It can be hard to tell. I've been to lots of conferences and things where they're like, “Long forms coming back.” A lot of people do really want to see that, but I personally still see from an attention span perspective and people and culture, we just want things fast. We want things packaged fast, we want things done right, and I feel like a big part of that still is in that micro learning space and just having those elements there. But I do really see too a big call for authenticity and content, continuing to plow through and just having that content that stands out. So whenever you see different things happening, different things trending, experimenting, trying things, and pivoting because no matter where it goes, if you're adaptable, you will make that work. So it's hard to sit here and prepare this may happen. It's like, “Okay, if long form's trending, let's go.” And really having the team ready, having yourself ready, just getting that content and not being too rigid.
00:19:33
Andrea Marquez: I feel like when you're an entrepreneur, you could get stuck in the analysis paralysis phase, so just get started. Sarah didn't even have a social media strategy when she was first starting Nguyen Coffee Supply.
00:19:44
Sarah Nguyen: There was really no thought behind it. There was no constant calendar, there were no pillars. It was literally what do I feel like posting? I think the only thread if you were to really dissect it was this feeling of building in public. That's something that I felt like could be dissected as a common theme in our early social media is all the BTS of me building the brand. Every stage in building a company, getting our first shipment of greens, learning how to roast, meet at the roastery, us packing coffee, going to USPS, building in public was probably the only theme. And because that was their approach, we were just really organic about it.
00:20:20
Andrea Marquez: So if there's one thing you take away from this episode, it's start and don't force it.
00:20:25
Kat Norton: Not everything has to be perfect, and that takes a lot of inner work, especially on the content creator going inward and being like, “Okay, we're releasing the perfectionism, the people pleasing,” all that kind of stuff because it's really important to take a look at ourselves and figure out what is actually standing in our way when it comes to scaling our business. Is it do we need a bigger team? Is it a time thing? Is it a money thing, an energy thing? Unblocking within yourself, whatever that is. And that's what opens it up. And that paired with taking that messy action and not getting all in our heads, waiting for the perfect day to film. Oh, but I need this camera, but I need that. I started all my things on an iPhone. I had no exterior microphone, I didn't have any crazy quality things. I just put myself out there and did the thing. And a lot of times it's that messy action that you take that will lead you to that next step to help you really scale and grow.
00:21:19
Andrea Marquez: I feel like I just got a crash course on everything social media. I love that we got two different perspectives on what kind and how to make content, but a common thread throughout all the advice was make sure to stay authentic and aligned with your brand's values and, of course, be adaptable. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Let me know what you think of this episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. If you liked what you heard, I hope you'll share us with anyone else who needs to hear this.
If you're an aspiring entrepreneur or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you're ready for the next step, a super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy. Take the free self- assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www. smallbusiness. amazon. That's it for today's episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Businesses brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.
BONUS: The Benefits of Integrating Culture Into Your Products
Stand out through branding.
Building a brand around your culture and history can help you stand out and create a loyal customer base. Just ask Teri Johnson, the CEO of Harlem Candle Co, whose scented candles are inspired by influential figures in the Harlem Renaissance. Teri opens up about how, in sharing stories from this moment in Black history, she was able to build a brand that people wanted to talk about, share and celebrate. "Storytelling is everything about the candle," she says. "People connect to it and they can feel it."
Learn how Teri started her business, the stories behind some of her favorite scents, and how she integrates Black history into her branding.
In this episode you'll hear:
(01:18) Where Teri's story begins
(04:23) How to find support (and cross promotion) in community
(05:15) Andrea mentions one of our previous episodes, in which former NFL player Justin Forsett talks about finding your "huddle". You can listen to the full episode here: https://www.smallbusiness.amazon/podcast-episodes/ep-13-justin-tackles-the-top-3-steps-to-start-a-business
(07:40) How to work storytelling into product packaging
(08:30) How brand storytelling wins Teri media coverage and high-profile customers
(09:55) How transparency builds customer loyalty
Takeaways:
1 - Have a supportive community of entrepreneurs who know what you’re going through. They’ll be there if you want to collaborate to get better reach or if you need to vent about something only a fellow entrepreneur might understand.
2 - Integrating great storytelling into your products helps customers build a connection with your brand, and it promotes media coverage of your products when editors and journalists want to share your and celebrate your story.
3- Be honest with your customers – especially when things go wrong. This will show your customers that you care about giving them the highest quality product or services and might even turn them into loyal customers.
4 - Ask for permission. If you’ll be incorporating culture into your products and are planning to use someone’s legacy, then make sure you ask for permission. You could get in touch with their families like how Teri did with the illustration of the nightclub map of Harlem on the inside of their Candle boxes.
00:00:01
Teri Johnson: It's wonderful to celebrate history, to celebrate the past, to acknowledge the people who came before us who have done tremendous things. I want to learn more about other places, and other parts of history, and other cultures. I'd love to learn about that through some sort of product.
00:00:18
Andrea Marquez: It's Black History Month, and what better way to celebrate than to talk to a brand that celebrates Black culture all year round? Season 4 is right around the corner. In the past three seasons, I loved featuring as many diverse entrepreneurs as possible. I've noticed that a lot of them incorporate their culture into the brands in different ways. Aside from the fact that it's wonderful to be able to share your culture with other people, it can help your product stand out, and even build a loyal customer base.
I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we have a special episode with Teri Johnson, the CEO of Harlem Candle Company. Teri's business creates candles inspired by people and places from the Harlem Renaissance, an art movement that started in the Harlem neighborhood in New York. We'll be talking about how she incorporates culture into her products, the importance of having community, and of course, the stories behind some of her favorite scents. But first, let's get into Teri's story. Her journey building Harlem Candle Company started in her kitchen.
00:01:23
Teri Johnson: There was one year I had no money to buy gifts, and I was going to be seeing so many different family members and friends all over the country, and I wanted to bring something that was really special.
00:01:33
Andrea Marquez: And because she loved scented candles, she decided to make some and gift them to her friends and family for Christmas.
00:01:39
Teri Johnson: I had gotten some fragrance oils from a friend of mine, who's a chemist, who had created fragrance oils for different candle brands, and I made about 50 candles and I branded it La Maison de Bougies de Teri, Teri's House of Candles. Each candle had a little story, had a different color, had a different scent, depending on who I was gifting it to. The response was overwhelming. My friends and family love them. They wanted to order more. I was like, “Well, it's not a business,” but they said, “You should turn it into a business,” which is what I did. It was really an experiment, and I knew I could not call it La Maison de Bougies de Teri, because that makes no sense to most people. So I decided to name it the Harlem Candle Company, and use the essence of the Harlem Renaissance, and these incredible icons and legendary places as the inspiration for the fragrances.
00:02:31
Andrea Marquez: Even before the idea of Harlem Candle Company came to her, Teri always knew that she wanted to be her own boss.
00:02:38
Teri Johnson: I did corporate America. I definitely tried it. I used to do management consulting. The position that I had, I was responsible for going into these companies, understanding every little part of what a person did. I used to code, and being able to create a process, a system, to replace that person in their job. It was crazy, because it was like, “Oof, this is tough.”
However, I got these people to give me all their information about what they did, which is why I think creating a business, and creating a brand, I understand, from the very minute detail of being able to create something, and every single thing that is necessary in order to make it happen. Creating this brand, honestly, it wasn't hard. I'm not saying it with humility, but I'm saying it because I used to do really, really hard stuff for financial services companies. Building a candle brand? I was like, “Oh, no, that wasn't hard, and I can do it again.”
00:03:36
Andrea Marquez: Teri was ready to build a brand, and even though she makes building a business look easy and fun, it wasn't always so glamorous.
00:03:44
Teri Johnson: There are plenty of things about it that are not fun, that are not easy. Imagine packing up all your candles, a lot of them that you made the night before, or two nights before. Candles are heavy. Lugging them in a big old suitcase, some on a backpack, some on a tote bag, packing all this stuff into an Uber, and going to a pop-up and selling two candles, and not even being able to break even and pay for the Uber back and forth. That has happened. It's happened multiple times, and those are those moments that they're extremely humbling, but you have to fight through it. You can't give up, you can't quit.
00:04:22
Andrea Marquez: One of the things that helped Teri keep going, despite all that, was the supportive community she had around her.
00:04:28
Teri Johnson: I have a lot of friends who are also entrepreneurs or designers, who are makers, and it's important because sometimes it's just we're venting, and you just need to let it out. Then you also can sometimes get ideas, or, “Did you hear about this market,” or, “Did you hear about that?” You share, you collaborate. I'm wearing jewelry by a brand called Lionette. She's one of my best friends. I met her at a pop-up, and I wear her stuff as much as I possibly can, in different photo shoots, when I'm doing Instagram lives, and all that good stuff, and she puts my candles in her product photography. There's all sorts of really cool ways to be able to support each other, direct or indirectly. Having a community of people who believe in you, and just like you a lot, is important.
00:05:15
Andrea Marquez: This reminds me of an episode we had with Justin Forsett, a former NFL player, and the founder of Hustle Clean. He called it Having Your Huddle; a group of people that are close to you, and that you can go to for help.
00:05:31
Teri Johnson: It makes such a difference, because so many of us are self-funded, and we know the struggle. We know the struggle is real. When you know the struggle is real, and you see each other struggling, or doing some stuff, that's kind of cool. Being able to help, and support, and share is just the best.
00:05:50
Andrea Marquez: Another important part of Teri's community are her customers.
00:05:54
Teri Johnson: I call these people angels. There are people who are talking about your brand, doing really nice things, gifting your brand, that you don't really even know, and you don't know the impact and the moves that are actually being made. This really is our customers. These are our customers. They're our friends.
00:06:11
Andrea Marquez: Harlem Candle Company is more than just a candle company. Storytelling is an integral part of the brand.
00:06:18
Teri Johnson: All of the candles are inspired by the Harlem Renaissance. It could be a scent inspired by Josephine Baker, and we've used our interpretation of her boudoir. What did her boudoir smell like? Her boudoir in Paris. We imagine there's some rose, and some jasmine, and some amber. When you think about the time period of the 1920s and '30s, “Okay, what was the perfume that women were wearing?” We'd really just tried to create something that was sensual, and lovely, evocative, but that could transport you into this boudoir.
I would say one of my favorites is the Langston candle, which is inspired by the poet and writer Langston Hughes. What we really tried to do is recreate his creative space. Langston Hughes was a big smoker, so we put tobacco fragrance notes in there. He also used to live in Mexico, at two points in his life, and he loved going into these really small, candlelit, dusky churches, where they're burning incense. So we put incense notes in there. But then we also imagine him sitting on his leather chair, as he's writing very late at night, and so we put elements of leather. We really do try to embody the spirit and the creativity of whoever we are named the candle after. Storytelling is everything about the candle, and people connect to it, and they can feel it.
00:07:39
Andrea Marquez: I see that that storytelling extends to the packaging as well.
00:07:44
Teri Johnson: If you open up the candle box, you'll see a 1932 illustration of the nightclub map of Harlem. You'll also find a card that has a really beautiful picture of the candle in a lifestyle setting. And on the back of that card, it'll tell you the inspiration, and the fragrance notes, and a little romance story about the candle and how it connects to either the person that it's named after or the place it's named after. It's all about storytelling, and we try to make it really easy to gift, because you don't have to remember the story when you give the candle because it's on the inside.
00:08:15
Andrea Marquez: I could listen to Teri talk about these stories all day. She's obviously really passionate about what she does, and that passion and the storytelling behind the candles has brought them loads of success, even though they don't have a PR team.
00:08:29
Teri Johnson: I think because the brand is based on storytelling that people can connect, people understand. They get it. I think it makes it really easy for media outlets to talk about us. I would say those things, when all of these magazines, Elle, WWD, Cosmo, Vanity Fair, all these magazines, it's like, “Okay, this is cool. Thank you.” We don't even know the editors. We don't know the writers. They just know the brand, and they like it, and they write about it.
00:08:58
Andrea Marquez: She's even had a few celebrity customers.
00:09:01
Teri Johnson: I saw an order come through, and the name said Justin Bieber, but it was a large order, so I always noticed the real big orders. That was Justin Bieber. He ordered a candle. I called my fulfillment center. I was like, “Everybody, stop. Justin Bieber ordered candles.” They're like, “What?” We were like, “We got to make it so nice. Let's just like... We're going to write a handwritten note. Thank you, Justin, so much. We're just going to put so much love.” We put love into everything, but I said, “I need this box to have extra love.” Alicia Keys ordered his candles, Misty Copeland.
00:09:35
Andrea Marquez: From getting featured on magazines to celebrity customers. I think it's so cool that Teri has managed to build a brand that resonated with so many people, all through the power of storytelling. But at the end of the day, it still is entrepreneurship, and if you know anything about building a business, it's that there's always a few bumps in the road.
00:09:55
Teri Johnson: One of my manufacturers, a few years back, put the wrong fragrance in, I don't know, about 3, 000 candles, labeled it, everything. All our customers who know this candle, because it is their favorite, are just saying, “Hey, this is not the Speakeasy candle.”
00:10:10
Andrea Marquez: So Teri orders a candle, and realizes that the manufacturer had accidentally used another fragrance instead of Speakeasy.
00:10:18
Teri Johnson: We had to go and figure out the batch, and figure out every single person that had been shipped these candles with the wrong fragrance, because we knew it was wrong. We told them. We had to email all of them, and just say, “We are so sorry. Unfortunately, our manufacturer put the wrong candle fragrance.” We said, “Okay, this fragrance was actually our Brownstone fragrance.” Some people replied saying, “Thank you for letting me know, because I love this Brownstone fragrance.”
00:10:43
Andrea Marquez: I love that some of the customers ended up loving the scent.
00:10:47
Teri Johnson: They were very grateful, because a lot of the customers, if that was their first time ordering speakeasy, they didn't know that that was not the smell. But we were like, “No, we have to be very transparent, and let them know mistakes happen.” A mistake happened, and we fixed it. We've had so much customer loyalty, because we just like to just be upfront and honest, and let them know what's going on as a small business, because things like this can happen.
00:11:11
Andrea Marquez: Teri sent the right fragrance to all customers who had ordered it. Speaking from a customer's perspective, I definitely appreciate seeing that a brand is going above and beyond for me. That would've definitely made me a repeat customer. Let's go back to the storytelling behind Teri's brand. Teri incorporates history and culture in her products in such a beautiful way, and she managed to find a whole community who appreciates that. If you've been thinking about doing something similar...
00:11:37
Teri Johnson: Do it because it's good. It's wonderful to celebrate history, to celebrate the past, to acknowledge the people who came before us who have done tremendous things. I say do it. You can't go wrong. You can't go wrong. I want to learn more about other places, and other parts of history, and other cultures. I'd love to learn about that through some sort of product.
00:12:00
Andrea Marquez: But if you're going to be working with specific people, Teri says it's important to be in touch with their families and get their permission.
00:12:08
Teri Johnson: The packaging that we have on the inside of our boxes, with the nightclub map of Harlem, illustration from 1932, I know the daughter of the artist, and the granddaughter of the artist. We got their permission, and they said, “Oh, absolutely. Thank you for celebrating my father's work in this way.”
00:12:26
Andrea Marquez: That was Teri Johnson, the CEO of Harlem Candle Company. It's so obvious that Teri's passionate about Harlem Candle Company, and I think that passion and the storytelling behind her brand is one of the main reasons why she has such loyal customers, or angels, as she calls them. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.
That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to You by Amazon. Make sure to subscribe, and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And please, please, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone, or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com.
Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, with technical and story production by JAR Audio.
Ep. 44: How to Keep a Seasonal Business Profitable Year-Round
Stay profitable all year.
Ever wondered how to keep a seasonal business profitable year-round? Charlie Weiss, owner of Jummy, an organic hot cocoa company has it figured out. Find out how you can leverage slow periods for business growth and why customer loyalty is essential to your success during the high and low seasons. And because this is our last episode this season, you’ll also get to hear from experts from previous episodes who’ll be expanding on some of the tips Charlie points out, like making sure you stay up to date with your customer journey and figuring out your cash flow.
(6:23) - Charlie reveals the seasonal customer journey of his business and how his goals shift from trying to get new customers in the high seasons to retaining customers during the slow seasons.
(15:33) - Charlie emphasizes the importance of forecasting when figuring out cash flow in a seasonal business.
(17:10) - Charlie talks about how he prepares and takes advantage of the slower season to improve his business by trimming expenses, testing new flavors, and learning new skills.
[00:00:00] Charlie: It's a very good way to learn. Seasonal business. Yes, it could be challenging. On the other hand, it also gives you a lot of time to learn functions and actions that you would not be able to learn if you were busy all year long, all the time. So, you take the time to actually reinforce your knowledge and your skills.
[00:00:23] Host: Considering how challenging it must be to stay profitable or to keep your customers coming back during slower seasons, I'm glad we're starting off on a positive note. Let's dive deeper into what it takes to keep a seasonal business profitable and running all year long.
Hi, This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. I’m your host, Andrea Marquez. On This is Small Business we cover all things small business that will help you start, build, and scale your business. We will hear from guests with diverse backgrounds, point of views, and stories, with the hope of hearing from many types of small business entrepreneurs. By the end of each episode, I'll point out key takeaways that you can use on your business journey.
[00:01:00] We’re at the last episode of the third season of This is Small Business. And for the season finale, we decided to talk about a slightly different type of business: a seasonal one. A seasonal business gets most or all their revenue from one season. We’ll be talking to Charlie Weiss, owner of Jummy, an organic hot cocoa company, about how to manage a seasonal business and ways you can stay profitable all year long. Like most of the businesses we feature on This is Small Business, you can find Jummy in the Amazon store. I thought Jummy was the perfect business for this because hot chocolate is sometimes considered a seasonal drink. If you’re like me, as soon as November starts, it’s hot chocolate season. I like to enjoy it best during colder months. For seasonal business owners, it can be worrying to have a product that tends to sell more during certain months.
I was curious to learn about how seasonal business owners can also stay profitable during low selling seasons so I spoke to Charlie. You’ll also hear from familiar experts and small business owners who showed up on other episodes this season. They’ll be pointing out and expanding on some of the takeaways. [00:02:00] So if you have a seasonal business and are looking for ways to stay profitable or keep your customers coming back during the slower seasons, then this episode is for you.
Also, don't forget that if you want to hear your story on This is Small Business, we have a voicemail line where you can ask questions or share your entrepreneurial story. We want to hear from you! Find the link to the voicemail line in the episode description.
[00:02:20] Charlie: Oh, well, Jummy, came from Frozen Desserts. I had initially started a Frozen Desserts company a while back, which had its, uh, trepidations, adventures, and unfortunately, or fortunately, didn't work out as planned. So I was able to get into a few stores, about a hundred stores in the city at the time, but could not sustain somewhat of the growth. So it decided to pivot eventually. Uh, just by simply one night being in my apartment debating what I was going to do and I know my supplier had sent me some delicious cocoa powder because I used to make a double chocolate sorbet and decided to make a hot cocoa and I was like, wow, this cocoa is fantastic [00:03:00] and I made it with some coconut sugar and I was like, okay, hold on. This whole segment of the cocoa world must have changed in the last few years. And I realized that there weren't that many newish brands. So I decided to look more into it and came up with the idea of adding prebiotic fiber a few years ago, reducing the amount of sugar.
[00:03:20] ANDREA: I love that Jummy came out of a pivot. Your initial idea didn't go as planned but something better came out of it. And it sounds like you didn't just want to be another hot cocoa brand out there, you wanted to find a way to differentiate your product. Before we get into discussing the seasonality behind your business, I wanted to know why call it Jummy?
[00:03:40] Charlie: Jummy is Joy and Yummy. People say, oh Jemi, what is that? Oh, it's just yummy with a J. So then they remember that rather quickly. A very versatile name as well, which allows us to, stay in the hot cocoa, but if eventually we want to do chocolate bars, who knows, whatever, it, it's not going to affect the branding as much as my previous [00:04:00] venture that was called Charlie Sorbet. So, Jummy represents the Spirit of the brand and also the message and the feeling we want to convey to the consumer. I just want to make people happy. I just want to share the fact that you're able to have a healthier cup of hot cocoa.
[00:04:17] ANDREA: That’s a little crash course on the importance of branding when you're coming up with your name. So Charlie, can you tell me what makes Jummy a seasonal business?
[00:04:25] Charlie: It's seasonal because of the product that we manufacture. Uh, it's hot cocoa, no matter how better for you it's going to be. It's always going to be a hot cocoa and the consumer will always associate hot cocoa with a warm, comfy, cozy evenings, or, uh, after a long day out in the snow, that's what you think of hot cocoa. So for us, that is mainly, consumer driven seasonality. So our business really starts to pick up towards, let's say beginning of November, and really starts to you know rocket [00:05:00] around Thanksgiving. Now it's a not difficult but a little bit tricky to plan for the start of our season and having said that it is definitely the consumer that drives the seasonality of the business.
[00:05:12] Host: That brings an important topic to mind: because the customer drives the seasonality of the business, it's important to know what the customer journey looks like. We actually went over this topic in the first episode of this season. Here's Amber Murray, founder of Fidget Stickers, with a quick refresher on what the five steps of a customer journey look like:
[00:05:30] AMBER: There's awareness, consideration, then the decision purchase, retention, and advocacy.
[00:05:36] ANDREA: So, Charlie, considering that you're a seasonal business can you tell me a bit about what your customer journey looks like in both on and off seasons?
[00:05:45] Charlie: The consumer starts around the month of October to think about the winter. So all these nice warm feelings driven by some search online. And that's when we come in [00:06:00] and we really start to gear up our advertising campaigns. The imagery that we use of a little something a little bit more cozy, a little bit more comfy, on our social media. To drive that consumer to our listings, and finally to, to purchase, the goal is to get that consumer to repurchase at least a few times during the season, and that journey kind of switches around March, April, where we obviously see sales to slow down a little bit and we see the consumers on this particular journey during the summer using our products more into their smoothies or adding to their coffee. So we've had videos and advertising where people added to their coffee, their yogurts. Actually, the yogurt one is thanks to my nephew. So you end up with a chocolate, yogurt, caramel flavor item and he loved it. I tried it and I was like, yeah, we need to, we need to push this because this will allow us to get out of that seasonality mindset for a cocoa mix or a hot cocoa mix. [00:07:00] And that's really the goal of a seasonal business is to be able and actually any business, obviously, but more so in the seasonal business is to attract the consumer and to keep that customer across the seasons, no matter how hard it is.
[00:07:10] ANDREA: Okay so you get your customers during the high season and then you try to keep them during the low seasons by advertising the use of the powder in other ways that could work during a warmer season -- like putting it in yogurt. What research went into figuring out that your customers can even use your product in the low season in that way?
[00:07:30] Charlie: Competitive analysis basically and this is what a lot of the business do so we look at what other business are doing how they're advertising their products, and we start to notice that people are much more versatile in the use of the hot cocoas of the world. So some other brands may focus more on their hot cocoa and say, oh, you can also use this for baking. We want to see it more as something that you can add to other items such as your coffee or your tea, for example, [00:08:00] or the yogurts. The smoothie is a huge thing. We have people that order quite a bit and that's all they do all year long. They love their smoothies. They want to add a little bit of sweetness with a little bit of cocoa flavor behind or a little bit of hazelnut or caramel flavor, and it's a perfect way to get yourself in the routine of the consumer.
So we did a lot of research on that. We actually tested also the product because nobody wants to put like two scoops of hot, of cocoa mix and not able to, uh, dissolve it correctly. You know reviews are a huge part of the business, whether it's positive reviews or more constructive reviews as we may call them. So those are things we take into account a lot when we review what consumers are doing. So when we look at some of these reviews, and we try to understand where we may have missed the mark, we are able to adjust. Much more efficiently, I believe, and easily than a company or brand that is much larger. That allows us to be much more nimble. [00:09:00] We can, you know, if we want to change the packaging, if we see that, okay, this, this season for a reason, Caramel is not selling, why isn't it sell why is it not selling correctly? It's a great flavor, obviously, but why isn't it not selling? Have we not advertised correctly, for example? Maybe it's a trend, you know.
[00:09:15] Host: And making sure you're constantly staying up to date with your customer is an essential part of your business. Here's what Roshni, Founder & CEO of Prosh Marketing, had to say about it in Episode 12 of this season:
[00:09:25] Roshni: This type of information changes all the time, so you can't just do this and then set it and forget it, because customers are changing. So if you sit on your data and your customer research, and you just build, and now you think that this is the way customers are, you're forgetting that customers and markets evolve over time. So it's something that's always changing, and something that you should, even as a business owner, as a marketer, as anyone in an organization, just have your pulse on the customer.
[00:09:50] ANDREA: But it could get a little tricky when you're trying to stay ahead of trends, so Charlie, what type of research are you conducting to be able to know that something is going to be trendy soon?
[00:10:00] Charlie: We usually look at, again, what the competition is doing. And we do know that these larger firms are the trendsetters. Regardless if their product comes out and it's a cherry rose flavor hot cocoa, you can be sure that the next year or two, cherry rose cocoa flavor is going to be a big hit. And it's not, the consumer usually does not dictate that, but these larger brands actually do dictate these, these trends somehow, because of such a niche and seasonal business. And it's quite interesting to see that. Now the other one is also, we try to think a little bit outside the box. So the mocha flavor that we have, a lot of other people are making mocha flavors that we all know, but I personally didn't even know it was going to be that successful. So there's also the fact that, okay, yeah, we want to try to see what has worked for others, you may think it's not going to work for you, but it actually works way better than you expected. And others that you think is, are going to work great, don't necessarily work [00:11:00] on the market. For us you know, for a while Caramel was doing great, and you know, sometimes there's a little bit of slowdown of, of the sales, and then it picks back up. It's, that's the nature also of the business and consumer demand.
[00:11:12] Host: It sounds like there's a lot of testing and learning which reminds me of something Trinity, co-founder and CEO of Golde, said in the second episode of this season:
[00:11:21] Trinity: When you are in this entrepreneurial journey, you have to look at yourself as you're sort of a scientist, you're a great experimenter, and so you're gonna try a lot of different things as you try to understand what works, what catches your audience's attention, what drives sales, what creates more brand love?
[00:11:42] ANDREA: Speaking of trying different things and learning as you go, something else I’m wondering is, because of the seasonality of your product, does the price change with it considering how demand fluctuates?
[00:11:54] Charlie: We see myself not only as the owner of the business or the brand manufacturer but also as a consumer. [00:12:00] I'm going to go in the store and I'm going to like something and buy it for 10, I go three months later and it's at 14, unlikely going to buy it. Because my first question is, why have you increased the price by so much? Our strategy is to offer discounts and coupons once we hit more of the summerish seasons. And like I mentioned previously, this is a time where we want to try to also show consumers that they can do more with our cocoa as opposed to just buying it between November and March. So we want to try to keep them. Also, we just want to make people happy and show them they can enjoy a cup of hot cocoa that has a little bit less sugar, has some prebiotic fiber, that's really our goal. We have customers that came back over 50 times and purchased our products. We don't want to lose them just because we're going to hike the price by a couple points. It's not going to work in our favor.
[00:12:50] ANDREA: So, you’re prioritizing customer loyalty through consistency, essentially. So, Charlie, I want to switch gears a bit and talk about cash flow. [00:13:00] Especially since that is one of the more intimidating topics for business owners.
[00:13:05] Charlie: Let me get my accountant with me right now. He will explain everything to you. And the mild heart attacks that we may have.
[00:13:13] ANDREA: I bet it's overwhelming sometimes. So tell me a little bit about what cashflow looks like for a seasonal business like yours.
[00:13:20] Charlie: In order to predict, um, proper cash flow and having enough reserve along the year, if you have too many movements of price with your product, it may be a little bit harder to forecast what your cash flow will be next season. Now what usually happens for us is we're Our year doesn't typically end December 31st It ends around March 30th, April Because that's when really our high season slows down. Once we're done with this high season, we're able to look at what happened During the month of November to March and have a proper forecast [00:14:00] or a proper estimation of what's going to happen in the following year.
[00:14:03] Host: So Charlie is doing something that Ambro Blackwell, a best-selling author and VP and senior business banking relationship manager at JP Morgan Chase said is essential when trying to figure out your cashflow: Forecasting. Here’s Ambro.
[00:14:16] Ambro: You should be forecasting your business. You should know where your business is heading. So you want to be able to anticipate, understand how your cash flow is looking. And yes, there's always going to be some days, some months where businesses, you know, may not be as steady as the month before. But you want to be able to, as much as possible, make sure that you're planning for that. And the only way you can do that to make sure that you're optimizing your cash is to do it strategically.
[00:14:40] Host: And doing this helps Charlie prepare himself for the slower seasons.
[00:14:44] Charlie: Now, we usually start to have cut some expenses and try to be a little bit more cautious and conservative around the month of April to September October. Once we start the October, November, we start implementing a little bit more of [00:15:00] what we would consider profit maximization. So that means going over the ads that worked very well the previous year that had a very good ROAS and that performed quite well. See how we can adjust them and increase actually those budgets in order to get more customers and more people in the door.
So it is a necessity and it could be a little bit difficult at times because as you know the weather is can't really forecast that, no pun intended, but that's why I say around Thanksgiving is usually the time of the year where we see our spike in sale and that continually increases and then decreases slowly into March and so that's how we're able to forecast more or less our cash flows.
[00:15:46] ANDREA: Charlie and what do you work on in the low seasons to prepare?
[00:15:50] Charlie: We try and we test new flavors. We see what works, what doesn't work. Like, could we add maybe some, some more cocoa? Or what's going on with this, you know, element in the formula? [00:16:00] So the seasonal aspect of the business also allows you to optimize yourself and optimize the business during the slower month of the year. Including learning a little bit more about accounting. Accounting is, is, is a necessary evil. But once you know and you understand some of these casual concepts, you're able to be like, okay, hold on, my ad campaigns are not performing well. I can see this becoming an issue in six months. As opposed to saying, Oh, okay, it's not going well. Let's see what happens in a week or two. And then, you end up in six months having a very big cash flow issue. So understanding the cash flow, these cash flow concepts, the ad spend, your inventory, how much you're being charged at, for your warehouse and the fulfillment, allows you to really plan a little bit better your profit maximization during the high season and to cut expenses during the lower seasons.
[00:16:52] ANDREA: So it sounds like you can't really know how you're going to perform unless you have a year before to learn from. So I'm curious to know, [00:17:00] what was your first year like?
[00:17:02] Charlie: I started actually selling, I believe it was mid-December. So basically missed the entire season. So I did not have really a lot of data to look at. If you don't have any reviews, if you are not ranked correctly, nobody's going to find you. And this is what I tell people like, yeah, you have a great product. How are you going to tell people that you have a great product or you, or at least that you have a product?
Well to do that, you need to find creative ways. And one of them is, To advertise. The other one is Amazon has a great program called the Vine programs. So you're able to, they select customers or consumers. They're going to send some of your product to them and they will review. So that allows you to build up the review. So we were able to build up from like one or two reviews to 30, then those 30 become 40, and then you start to see your ads converting and then you're like, okay, hold on. I'm now, instead of spending a hundred dollars and getting. 30 in sales, I'm spending a 100 [00:18:00] and getting 250 in sales. So what's going on? Like, what's converting well? And you're starting to look at things like, okay, keywords. What are people searching for? Oh, we're ranking very well for vegan hot chocolate. Okay, let's, let's push that. Coming back to the cash flow. Let's put more money in those keywords and reduce the spending on keywords like hot cocoa, which is so vague that You can spend thousands of dollars and get maybe five sales.
So those are the little tricks at the beginning that takes a lot of time and money to learn. Then comes back to being persevering and pushing and trying to understand the systems. It's like a new language. You need to understand the advertising platform, the tools that are offered, like, you know, um, on the brands aspect, you're able to see the demographics of people purchasing. These are very important, data that you need to look at or someone has to look at. And, yeah, it ties all back to [00:19:00] the questions you had previously regarding the cash flows. Because this allows us to really trim, um, the spending.
[00:19:08] Host: What a great way to end this season by giving us a look into what it’s like to be a seasonal business. That was Charlie Weiss, owner of Jummy, an organic hot cocoa company. And as always, here are some of the key takeaways.
- One. This isn’t specific to a seasonal business but as we learned from Jummy, product differentiation is key. We’ve spoken about this in past episodes. Standing out means thinking about who your competitors are and how your product compares, what are you providing for customers that they can’t really get the same somewhere else?
- Two. When it comes to a seasonal business with low and high seasons that are very clear, it’s important to look at retention. Prioritizing your customer’s loyalty like Charlie does. Once you’ve got a customer during the high season, try to figure out how to make them come back during the slower seasons. It’ll be way easier than trying to get new customers. Charlie suggested giving loyal customers some discounts during lower seasons.
- [00:20:00] Three. If you’re seasonal… leverage that. Use the slow seasons as a way to learn more about how to improve your business during the high seasons. And maybe even try cutting down on marketing and ads that you might be running that aren’t getting the engagement you expected.
- And four. Cash Flow is super important to stay open during the slow season. Make sure you try to forecast any upcoming payments that you’ll have during the slower seasons and set money aside for that. And maybe even try cutting down on marketing and ads that you may be running that won’t work during that season.
I'm curious – Is your business seasonal? How do you get your customers coming back during the low seasons? I'd love to hear about your journey! Reach out to us at thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com to tell us what you're up to. Or let me know what you think of the episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts – it’s easier if you do it through your phone. And if you liked what you heard -- I hope you'll share us with anyone else who needs to hear this!
If you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, and I hope you are if you’re listening to This is Small Business. Or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you’re ready for the next step. A super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy where you can find the help you need [00:21:00] to take your small business from concept to launch and beyond. Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www.smallbusiness.amazon.
That's it for today’s episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until later – This is Small Business, I'm your host Andrea Marquez -- Hasta luego -- and thanks for listening!
CREDITS: This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, with technical and story production by JAR Audio. [00:21:27]
Ep. 43: How to Grow a Sustainable Business
Stay profitable while sustainable.
Can your business meet eco-friendly regulations while thriving in a competitive market? Greg and Will Owens, the Co-Founders of Liberty Tabletop (who claim to be one of the most environmentally friendly flatware manufacturers on earth) will show you how. From using reusable materials to reducing carbon footprint, learn what it takes to grow your business as you implement environmentally responsible practices.
(2:42) - Greg and Will talk about the eco-friendly features of their flatware company, including reusable stainless steel, sustainable manufacturing practices, and reduced carbon footprint through their "factory to table" approach.
(7:27) - Greg explains that even though their products cost more due to fair wages and high-quality materials, customers appreciate the value of durability and the idea of a one-time purchase that lasts a lifetime which aligns with the core identity of their brand.
(9:42) - Will discusses their goal to get climate-friendly badges, emphasizing its significance in influencing consumer choices due to the credibility it provides to their company.
[00:00:00] Will: People shop online or go to the store, they are demanding that companies follow some sort of environmentally friendly or environmentally responsible path. There are companies out there who are taking pledges to be carbon neutral. All of these things, so you can see customers are shifting that direction when they want to purchase something. We're very happy that we live in that space where we can tell our customers with confidence that, yeah, you're purchasing a product that's going to help the environment.
[00:00:35] Andrea: So, when your small business is sustainable, more customers might end up buying your product. As a consumer myself, I would definitely support a business that prioritizes the environment. But what are some of the regulations that you should follow to make sure your business is more sustainable? And when you figure that out, how do you communicate it to your customers? Let's find out!
[00:00:55] Host: Hi, This is Small Business, a podcast by Amazon. I’m your host, Andrea Marquez. [00:01:00] This is one of our Minisodes, which are shorter episodes packed with helpful information for those of you who want a quicker binge. On this episode we'll be talking about sustainability and how your business can meet environmentally friendly regulations with the Co-Founders of Liberty Tabletop: Greg Owens, the CEO and William Owens, the Sales & Marketing Manager. Like most of the small businesses on the show, you can find Liberty Tabletop in the Amazon store. Also, remember that if you want to hear your story on This is Small Business, we have a voicemail line where you can ask questions or share your entrepreneurial story. We want to hear from you! Find the link to the voicemail line in the episode description.
[00:01:38] Greg: Liberty Tabletop was born in 2005 when Oneida Limited decided to shut down their production here in the United States and move their production overseas. And Matt Roberts and I decided we needed to do something about that. It was a factory town that we live in, Cheryl, New York. Used to have 2,600 employees working there. The building that we started out our office in [00:02:00] was built when Abraham Lincoln was president. To put it in perspective, that's how old the place was. And, so we, formed Cheryl Manufacturing, to be a captive manufacturer for Oneida. Went on for a couple years making flatware, doing some packaging, some other things for them. That relationship sort of fell apart. And we had to go in a different direction. So we created Liberty Tabletop, which is our own brand of flatware. And we've been going ever since and growing as a business.
[00:02:26] Andrea: So, I know you claim to be one of the most environmentally friendly flatware manufacturer on earth, could you tell me why you say this?
[00:02:34] Will: So our product is basically one element. It's, it's 1810 stainless steel. Stainless steel is reusable compared to for example, plastic forks, spoons and knives, which are one use and then you throw them away. Stainless steel also, when you manufacture it, there's no waste involved. All of the byproduct of what goes into making [00:03:00] a fork, spoon, or knife is able to be recycled. So those are just a few things from the product standpoint as to why we can claim to be, at least our industry can claim to be, very earth-friendly.
[00:03:13] Greg: Another aspect of our product is the quality. We use only the highest quality 1810 stainless as opposed to 18 oh stainless, which is much cheaper. So that means it lasts longer, retains its luster and it's something that you'll want to keep and pass down to the next generation. Our manufacturing process is also quite interesting. Our factory is run on hydropower from Niagara Falls. We buy most of our supplies locally. It's a big thing in business. Our buffs, our compounds, and our raw materials, our packaging materials, which are primarily made for recycled paper. We're fully compliant with EPA and New York State d e c standards, which are very stringent. We don't use any harsh chemicals. In particularly, we don't use Trichlorethylene to clean our product. It's a carcinogen, that's banned in the United States.
[00:04:00] The next thing that makes us earth-friendly is what we like to call it, is our marketing strategy through Amazon and through our website. We call it factory to table. So literally stainless steel shows up at our door. We manufacture our product, put it in our distribution facility, get an order, and it goes right from our factory to your table. Conversely, product coming in from overseas, travels half the way around the world on container ships that burn tar, and the environmental standards under which the stainless steel and the actual manufacturing take place are not anything close to what we have here in the United States.
[00:04:38] Will: Here in the United States, we get all of our stainless steel goes through a very stringent process at the mills. They go through testing to make sure that it is truly a hundred percent 1810 stainless steel. So from a health and safety standpoint, just as much from an earth friendly standpoint, it's a pretty big deal.
[00:05:00] Greg: To Will's point, when we first started our brand and first started marketing online, I took all the phone calls as I was the customer service guy, and I was very surprised that, a lot of people called me up and the most prominent question was, where is the metal from? Because they, they were cognizant of the fact that some of the mills, they don't test their metal. They test them for the things that are supposed to be in there, but they don't necessarily test them for the things that aren't supposed to be in there. So that was a big concern for our customers, and it became a big marketing point of our company.
Pollution was a real problem here when I grew up. And we've really cleaned up our act here in the United States. Unfortunately, part of that has been sending production overseas, outta sight, outta mind. When we have this conversation with folks and they really start thinking about what they're doing, and where their products are being made, it becomes very relevant and very important to them, particularly from an environmental standpoint.
[00:05:54] Will: Right. If the manufacturing plant was in your backyard, you wouldn't want them dumping anything into the stream, [00:06:00] but if it's halfway across the world, you don't really think about it.
[00:06:06] Greg: And our steel is manufactured in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania for the most part. And when I was a kid, the river caught on fire. That's how bad it was. Today it's a beautiful city. It's been rejuvenated and, uh, people fish in that river.
[00:06:20] Andrea: This is fascinating and very eye-opening. I had never thought of these things. So you covered a lot of regulations, a lot of specific things that are part of your process to be able to think about the greater picture and how this affects the environment and people's health. And obviously all that is great for your customers and employees, but how does that impact the growth of your business?
[00:06:40] Greg: I think that the message really resonates with our customers. Made in USA is, is, is a brand and we sort of own that brand and the flatware world as well mentioned, we're the only ones still doing it in the United States, but the number two thing that I, I would say impacts the customer choice and you're gonna pay a little bit more for it because of the quality. [00:07:00] We pay our workers a livable wage and all these other things that drive our cost up. Primarily it's, we don't have subsidized stainless steel that we work with, but the sustainability and the, the quality and the buy it once concept, literally something that you could have for the rest of your life and hand down to your kids. And it would still look good and function correctly versus some of the less expensive, product that you can buy out there that you might have for a couple years. Then you throw it away, it ends up in a landfill and you buy more. They really love that message and that's sort of become what we're all about.
[00:07:35] Andrea: As a consumer myself, it is becoming increasingly important for me to see some sort of proof that you are taking as a brand into consideration the good of the community and the environment. So that being said, what are some of the ways that a brand can show their customer that they're implementing sustainability into their processes?
[00:07:55] Greg: I think the first thing that you have to be focused on is you have to be genuine. [00:08:00] We really make an effort to tell our story. We make it true. We make it real. And I think when people hear that story and they see the product, they get it.
[00:08:10] Will: One thing that's very frustrating is to get sort of that written proof. It becomes very expensive for small businesses. It should be easier for a small business to be able to get that certification so that they can turn around and tell their customers with proof. We've all seen pictures of factories overseas. When you say, I am making a product here in the United States, just in the fact that the product is made here is already making a difference just in the fact that you don't need to ship the product halfway across the world is already making a difference.
[00:08:48] Andrea: Could you give an example of a stamps or badges that you're trying to get?
[00:08:52] Will: So the first one is, uh, working with Amazon to be able to get that climate friendly badge. [00:09:00] I personally as an Amazon shopper, have seen companies while I'm searching for products to buy that have it, versus companies that don't. Caring about the environment like I do, I will actually go for the product that has that. So, it's important. I would say we're gonna start with that badge. Because we see the most potential for our company, and Amazon gives that credibility to a buyer.
[00:09:25] Host: That were the Co-Founders of Liberty Tabletop: Greg and William Owens. They talked about sustainability and how your business can meet environmentally friendly regulations. As always, here are some quick key takeaways from this episode:
- One. It's probably more sustainable if you manufacture your products in the US. When you do that, you can look deeper into the manufacturing process and cut down on shipping overseas. Plus, being made in the US is appealing to a lot of customers so you might also win over more customers. Try looking into that option but know it will come with higher costs, so decide what is most important to you and possible.
- [00:10:00] Two. Some other things you should consider when it comes to environmentally friendly regulations are: the quality of your product and the material it’s made from, how you package your product, the journey that it takes for it to get to customer’s doors, and then, how do you communicate this to your customers? One way Will and Greg mentioned is by getting the badges or stamps that show this when customers consider your product like the climate friendly badge in the Amazon store.
That's it for this episode of This is Small Business Minisodes, brought to you by Amazon. If you liked what you heard, make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And we would love to know what you think, so please please please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone. Or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com with your thoughts.
Until next time – This is Small Business, I'm your host Andrea Marquez -- Hasta luego -- and thanks for listening! [00:11:01]
Ep. 42: How to Future-proof your Business
Leverage new technology.
Are you wondering if you could use AI or technology to ease your workload? The answer is yes and we’ll show you how. Kevin Meyer, Co-Founder & CEO of Crunch Tech Inc., explains how he uses automation and AI to run his business more efficiently. And Michelle Weise, the CEO of Rise & Design, digs deeper into how you can future-proof your business and the importance of communication in an increasingly tech-oriented community.
(5:42) - Can everything be automated? Kevin discusses the limitations of AI, particularly in terms of generating specific content and designing products.
(14:47) - Michelle emphasizes the importance of internal communications in the workplace, particularly the need to articulate the "why" and the vision behind organizational changes and technological advancements.
(19:44) - Andrea goes over the benefits of automation for small teams and how leveraging technology and project management tools can streamline operations.
[00:00:00] Michelle: We both need our human skills and our technical skills to bring to the table. You have to have enough human skills to differentiate your work, but you also have to be able to know enough technically to intervene at the right points in time and know when to interrogate the data or the model or the algorithm. If we look at where AI is today, even in its very elemental roots with these kinds of phenomenal innovations, we can see the ways in which some of our work can become potentially obsolete or made easier or automated. But we also can see very readily where our human skills come to the fore.
[00:00:40] Host: Hi, This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. I’m your host, Andrea Marquez. On This is Small Business we cover all things small business that will help you start, build, and scale your business. We will hear from guests with diverse backgrounds, point of views, and stories, with the hope of hearing from many types of small business entrepreneurs. By the end of each episode, I'll point out key takeaways that you can use [00:01:00] on your business journey.
The future of the workplace seems to be constantly evolving because of all the new technological advances that are happening. I mean we've all heard all about how AI is gonna change the workplace and how we work. So how can you leverage these tools to help improve your business operations? And is it even a good idea to do that? How much should you lean on technology to help automate certain parts of your business?
Coming up -- I'll talk to Michelle Weise, the CEO of Rise & Design, an advisory service for organizations looking to design strategies that'll prepare adults for the jobs of today and tomorrow. We'll be talking about how you can future-proof your business by using technology. But first - I want you to meet Kevin Meyer, Co-Founder & CEO of Crunch Tech Inc. You might also know him as the person who developed The CrunchCup alongside his partner. Like most of the small businesses we feature on the show, you can find the CrunchCup in the Amazon store. Kevin is an avid user of automation and technology to make sure that business operations are as efficient as possible. [00:02:00] So if you've been thinking of ways to leverage AI and technology to improve your business then this episode is for you.
Also, don't forget that if you want to hear your story on This is Small Business, we have a voicemail line where you can ask questions or share your entrepreneurial story. We want to hear from you! Find the link to the voicemail line in the episode description.
[00:02:20] Kevin: I was running an agency and we were helping small businesses basically get off the ground. Doing a lot of content and doing a lot of gurilla, kind of just scrappy stuff to make sure that, you know, these business owners who didn't have a huge budget, we could still give them high value production type of content. And so, my partner came to me and basically said Hey, so my daughter, she wants to get into, you know, at least spin up a small business. And she's thinking about things. And the unit economics on a cereal bar are pretty great. You're just selling people cereal. And I said, Yeah, that's, that's great. But you, you're gonna be stuck brick and mortar, you've got a spoon, you've got a bowl. [00:03:00] And somewhere in that conversation I said, you know, while I was a, an editor in the visual effects industry. Sometimes super late at night when the kitchen kind of like, no one's there, there was always cereal and milk. So I would have two cups, one cup with cereal, one cup with milk, and that way I could do my work and not have like a bowl of cereal just kind of turned to mush while I'm working.
And pretty much three days later, he shows up at my front door and he's got this hot glued contraption. At first, I said, you know what, this is gonna be super hard for people to adopt. Like people are so used to just eating their cereal with a spoon and a bowl, and then I used the prototype. And there's something just so uniquely special about being able to sit at your desk and with one hand eat cereal or granola or anything, and I knew it had legs. And so I said, you know what, Rob, my current co-founder, we'll launch it the same way I'm helping other clients but I'm gonna do it. Basically on the house [00:04:00] as a pet project, get all the team that in the agency at the time, just super excited about it. Like, this is a project for like us, like we can do whatever we want. There's no client. We are the client. And it was just a blast.
The cost per acquisition, for people that were super interested and the engagement on our, our initial ads were just like, light bulbs in my head saying, this is something super special. People love this. People are gravitating towards it and they want to be involved or they want to try it. And so fast forward to today. You know, we've sold over I think 500,000 units. We've got warehouses in four different countries, the US Canada, Australia, and the United Kingdom. And really, it's just, it's a, a blast to work on it.
[00:04:45] Andrea: I really, really like that story because the success of the product surprised you and right now Crunch Cup is doing great. So, before this we spoke about how much you love using tech to make your operating as efficient as possible considering you’re a small team.
[00:05:00] Kevin: We lean hard into our PMs, our project management system. Every Monday I'm just saying, hey, what are we doing that if it takes you five clicks or it takes you a whole minute of doing something and you're doing this task repeatedly, Like, let's automate that.
[00:05:20] Andrea: Do you believe everything can be automated at this point? Especially since AI is currently gaining a lot of popularity?
[00:05:25] Kevin: It's the question of this century, I think, you know how far can that go? Right, so, a good example of this is that an AI or a LLM, large language model, they work better when they're trained on a certain thing. For example, mid journey, which is, you know, a generative, creative kind of photo content. I can't tell it to, hey, create a photo with my product inside that photo. At least you can't do it yet. And there's some people trying to do this. The AI doesn't know what your product is. You can feed it an image offline or off a website off. You could just send it to a, an Amazon URL. And for the most part, [00:06:00] it's not gonna understand what a product is or how a consumer might use it, just from looking at it and learning about it. I don't think we're there yet.
You know, we did the same thing, like I, I said, oh, I want to do a generative ai, photo kind of sequence in on our Instagram feed cuz it's popular right now. So it's like, gimme a photo of, you know, a 90 year old person skydiving, holding the Crunch Cup, and I sent it a seed image, so it could understand what it's working with and try to use this blend mode. And it was just totally failed. So instead we just said, hey, grandma skydiving holding a water bottle, and we'll just Photoshop it in. And that's what we did.
Other things that it's not gonna be able to do is, it's not very good right now at connecting certain tasks. There's two parts to this. So let's say that I want to create an analytics dashboard based off a table of data. I could ask it to write a formula that says, Hey, in column g I want it to take the weighted average of column B plus C, [00:07:00] and it could spit that out, but if the step before that is what do you need to see to make actionable insights and why do we need to even see the average on column G? We're not really there yet where you can say, Hey, give me analytics. Because your brain is saying, I know kind of what I want, but I don't know exactly what I need. And in some cases, you know exactly what you need and then AI's great for that. But like if I asked AI to design my product, the one that we took, 80 prototypes, it's gonna have a super hard time doing that. And it may halfway through, forget what the prompt is to where it'll start to iterate and you know, you get something that's not a cup or it's completely different and it's got little channels that can't even be manufactured, so it doesn't know what the manufacturing capabilities are unless it's specifically trained on that.
And then it also doesn't know how the human is going to be using it, and it doesn't know certain instances [00:08:00] unless you fed it that info. Technically you could say, hey, I need you to generate a cup. It's got two vessels and it's solving this, this, this, this, this, this, this. And like, you feed it a ton of data, you may get close. But really the way that we should be using AI is to get to a starting point on how we want to direct it.
[00:08:22] Andrea: Can you tell me the top two ways that AI has influenced or benefited your business?
[00:08:28] Kevin: We began leaning into it to do things as simple as like, you know, I'll be honest, I use it to respond to emails in some cases. It’s really good at summarizing text so I can send it a link or give it just a data set of customer sentiment. We're launching a product later this year and a lot of those key points, the attributes of this new product were derived based off of customers. And so there's no way I can read the 12,000, [00:09:00] reviews that have been posted, you know, feeding that data to an AI and saying, Hey, gimme the five key points that people are upset with and want to see made better or resolved.
Another great thing it's able to do, and this has helped us optimize our process flow is really like content generation and the creative content that goes into like, let's say an email. So there's a prompt that I've made, it that has about 10 steps and every three steps I ask it to reply or to halt and ask if it needs any more information, if it understands. And in some cases it'll say, yeah, what about this, this, and this? how do you want to go about this? And we build out some of our email marketing just like that. We'll say, hey, generate five topics that are interesting to post in a email newsletter or an email blast to our customers. Here are four examples that we've done in the past, and it'll come back to us and say, Hey, here are five different email topics [00:10:00] that we can send out. And then that third step, I say, pick one of them and tell us why that's the best
one to actually push content out for. Once the content's built out, we can say, Hey, also generate a SMS message for this exact campaign. And it'll summarize that down into 144 characters so it can fit the sms character length. We've got now an email campaign. We've got SMS campaign, we've got our posts that supplement that campaign on our social media channels, and that would've taken, previously, maybe a few days and like bouncing, brainstorming between two or three people to like come up with that kind of content. As long as you're giving it the information it needs, it can take 30 seconds to do what it would take a few days and a few people. It’s super powerful.
[00:10:50] Host: You're listening to This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. I’m your host, Andrea Marquez. You just heard from Kevin Meyer, Co-Founder & CEO, Crunch Tech Inc. [00:11:00] You can find out more about the Crunch Cup in our show notes on our website: Thisissmallbusinesspodcast.com.
Kevin gave us a behind the scenes look into how he uses technology and AI to smoothly operate his business. Because they're a small team, time is money and so automating repetitive tasks is super important to ensure that the team has enough time for other priorities. So, if you've got a small team like Kevin and a lot of work to get through, then maybe automating some tasks can help you out.
Like Crunch Tech Inc., the small businesses we feature on This is Small Business are some of the many small businesses selling in the Amazon store who have tapped into some of the tools and resources offered to help them succeed and grow. One of those resources is the Amazon Small Business Academy where you can find the help you need to take your small business from concept to launch and beyond. You can strengthen your skills at no cost with live and on demand trainings, Q&As, events, and even find more This is Small Business content. If you don’t know where to start, you can take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www.smallbusiness.amazon.
[00:12:00] So far, we've talked about how Kevin used technology and AI to automate his business operations. So let's dig deeper into other ways that businesses can leverage technology and make sure that they’re prepared for the future of the workplace with my next guest Michelle Weise, the CEO of Rise & Design.
[00:12:20] Michelle: I think it helped that there was enough I think hoopla around the fact that it was very confident sounding, but often wrong. And so you had to go in, right, with a little bit of skepticism and doubt. So it is really important to double back and, and make sure that some of this stuff is helpful.
As small business owners, there are certain kind of time saving things we just need to rely on, to be able to save our mental space for the activities that really matter. Those kinds of tools are just, you need them when you don't have massive teams to do the grunt work for you, right? So you need time saving gestures and, and, and exercises and mechanisms. [00:13:00] I definitely rely on it here and there just as a, as an idea generator at certain points in times. I'm not the best, for instance, at creating agendas for meetings, so it just helps me quickly remember what does an audience kind of just need to know at a high level from some of the, the work that I'm presenting to them. But I, I, I definitely love it as, as an efficiency mechanism, but I'm definitely seeing that my role is clear and more defined now that I see what the tools can offer.
[00:13:28] Andrea: I’m so impressed sometimes by what AI can do but also, I feel like when people talk about it being “efficient” I feel like I spend more time explaining all the parameters of what I want to it, then if I just did it myself. Like, AI is making some type of mark, but I don’t know if it’s where we need it to be yet, at least in my experience. And thinking of looking into the future, what are some other trends you're seeing in the workplace that you think small business owners should look out for?
[00:13:57] Michelle: I think the biggest piece is, [00:14:00] for me at least, when I've seen, when I've worked with different kinds of organizations, the piece that's never going to go away is how critical internal communications is. You can never really over communicate how and what you're doing. I think the sort of dissemination and the knowledge share, getting it across to a wide array of stakeholders is, is just always critical and I, and I just kind of marvel at how we forget about it in different kinds of trans, I, I lead different kinds of, Internal transformations for organizations and companies and you get so mired in the what and the things to do, it can get really easy to forget to point to the why and why we're doing this. And really when you're trying to galvanize a large group of people, that insistence on the over communication of the why. And the vision and why we're doing all this work has to happen all the time, almost to a point where it gets annoying for people because they're just like, oh, they're saying it again, [00:15:00] but it needs to be there for people to kind of hear it, and feel a part of it. So I feel like that piece is kind of far and away just the thing that just keeps emerging, even through any kind of technical or technological enablement that goes on within an organization. That piece is, is always clear.
I've also noticed with, you know, as we're switching to remote and hybrid workforces, there's sometimes, especially for cultures that are more familiar with FaceTime and in person time, it can feel difficult to let go, and it's hard to kind of, focus on the deliverable as opposed to seeing someone work and feeling like they're working hard. And so that's where I think I've tried out every kind of possible project management tool in every organization. And those, those really are helpful in terms of keeping people on task and oriented toward, what is it that we're trying to accomplish and who's working on what? [00:16:00] I feel like the most kind of friction that emerges that I've seen in, in workplace challenges is around lack of clarity of what your role is. But I think when you use these different kinds of project management tools well, it's very clear who does what and when you need to hand something off or, or get into a moment of collaboration.
[00:16:20] Andrea: Collaboration I think is such an important aspect as you look to growing your team and thinking about scaling your business too and how you leverage the best tools that allow you to do that. And then there’s this human skill aspect of it that sometimes doesn’t come through when using these tools that needs to be prioritized too, right?
[00:16:40] Michelle: As we think about those trends for the future of the workforce, I think one of the things we're going to really see real transformation around is how we reimagine on the job training. We've seriously disinvested in training our existing workforce, [00:17:00] and I think what we're seeing in some of the innovations out there is a real excitement around how do you take your workforce, understand, and make really transparent mobility pathways within a company, and how do you kind of assess using AI and different kinds of skills that you bring to the table, as well as the gaps that you may have to move towards those other goals within the company that you may have. And it's really exciting to see some of these platforms emerge that make that kind of re skilling, much more concrete as to, okay, here I am now. I think I want to go be a systems network analyst, or I think I want to go be a human resources manager. Here are the 10 competencies I'm lacking, and here's how I might fill them.
And, and those kinds of things are emerging, which is really exciting to see on the innovation front. And so I think as we think about transparency and retention within the workforce. We're going to see more emphasis on how do we reimagine building those skills while in the flow of work. [00:18:00] I'm really excited to see how more and more companies figure out how to pull out or carve out 30 minutes a week, 30 minutes a day, to help people gain the time to actually acquire those new skills for, this emerging world of work. And I think that's like a really huge myth in the business world is that if you invest in your people, they'll leave you for your competition. Instead, it can really deal with this high turnover rate that we see in a lot of different companies. How do we keep our people? How do we make them feel valued? We actually teach them new skills.
[00:18:35] Host: That was Michelle Weise, the CEO of Rise & Design talking to us about the future of work. As always, here are some key takeaways:
- One. Automation is great, especially when you've got a small team like Kevin's. When you automate repetitive tasks using AI or technology, it'll help free yourself up for other important tasks that you might need to focus on. So do your research and leverage the tools available to you. Kevin thinks about this every Monday, [00:19:00] so maybe you want to start adding an hour of every week to auditing yourself on what can be automated to free some time.
- Two. Both Michelle and Kevin mentioned various ways in which they leverage technology to improve their operations. Kevin talked about how AI helps him generate emails or look through his customer reviews, as well as project management tools that help him stay on track. Michelle mentioned that a problem she sees in a lot of businesses is that sometimes people aren't sure what their role is and technology can help with that. You can use project managements tools to make sure that everyone knows what they need to doing, especially as your business grows. Michelle did also say that face time is also very important and there isn’t a replacement for what human connection can do.
I'm curious – Have you been thinking about how you can automate to improve your business operations? Or maybe you've already done that in many ways. I'd love to hear about your journey! Reach out to us at thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com to tell us what you're up to. Or let me know what you think of the episode by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts – [00:20:00] it’s easier if you do it through your phone. And if you liked what you heard -- I hope you'll share us with anyone else who needs to hear this!
If you’re an aspiring entrepreneur, and I hope you are if you’re listening to This is Small Business. Or maybe you already have your small business up and running and you’re ready for the next step. A super valuable resource that can help you is the Amazon Small Business Academy where you can find the help you need to take your small business from concept to launch and beyond. Take the free self-assessment on the Amazon Small Business Academy site at www.smallbusiness.amazon.
That's it for today’s episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next week – This is Small Business, I'm your host Andrea Marquez -- Hasta luego -- and thanks for listening!
CREDITS: This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, with technical and story production by JAR Audio. [00:20:50]
Ep. 41: How to Expand to Other Markets
Expand your business to other markets.
Entering a new market can be challenging, especially if it’s an international one. But Max Gurevich, President of Warm Home Designs, has learned all the do’s and don’ts after successfully entering the Canadian and Mexican markets via Amazon. From making sure you switch up your marketing strategy to better suit the new market and trusting your customer feedback, to taking on the fear of a new language, Max has a wealth of helpful tips to share.
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Ads. Amazon Ads helps you reach customers wherever they spend their time, and is here for every type of small business. Amazon Ads has a range of products and information to help you achieve your advertising goals, for registered sellers, vendors, book vendors, Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP) authors, app developers, and/or agencies.
(03:25) - How to tailor your products to non-US markets.
(05:34) - How to use research to gain a competitive advantage.
(10:16) - Andrea goes over the key takeaways for expanding to new markets which include thorough research, adapting marketing based on customer feedback, and starting with small-scale experiments for return on ad spend evaluation.
[00:00:00] Max: The most important thing that me or anybody else who thinking about expanding need to do is figure out is there a market for your products. It could be as easy as go to Amazon and look at your category. Let's say you're, you're selling coffee makers. Type in coffee makers and take a look. See how much are they selling for? What are the brands that you're competing against? Can you compete on the quality? Can you compete on the price? Can you compete on the listings? Is the listings showing the coffeemakers, are they good? Are they bad? Do they have a lot of images? Do they have video? If you see that there is opportunity, whether on a low end, or high end, then just go for it.
[00:00:37] Andrea: So if you're considering expanding into a new market, the first thing you've gotta do is research. I feel like that's the first step to everything in business. But once you've decided that there’s a demand for your product, what comes next? Are there any differences between the way you present your product to different markets? And if yes, how do you figure that out? Let's talk about it.
[00:01:00] Host: Hi, This is Small Business, a podcast by Amazon. I’m your host, Andrea Marquez. This is one of our Minisodes, which are shorter episodes packed with helpful information for those of you who want a quicker binge. On this episode we'll be talking about how you can expand into different markets with Max Gurevich, President of Warm Home designs which is a business that sells curtains! Like most of the small businesses we feature on the show, you can find the Warm Home Design curtains in the Amazon store. Also, remember that if you want to hear your story on This is Small Business, we have a voicemail line where you can ask questions or share your entrepreneurial story. We want to hear from you! Find the link to the voicemail line in the episode description.
Today’s episode of This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon Ads. Amazon Ads helps you reach customers wherever they spend their time, and is here for every type of small business. Amazon Ads has a range of products and information to help you achieve your advertising goals, for registered sellers, vendors, book vendors, Kindle Direct Publishing (KDP) authors, app developers, and/or agencies.
[00:02:00] Max: So, originally, I'm a CPA by trade. So when I graduated at NYU, I was working for a big four accounting firm. I really liked the job, but I also liked playing poker. So, four years after working as a CPA I quit, I became a professional poker player. That was very fun. A lot of exciting things were happening, but poker playing usually happens during the night and during the weekend. And I thought I had some free time to try something new. So, I tried Amazon FBA. That was 2012. Amazon FBA was starting out, so I bought my first product send her in and it sold it like 24 hours. I made like $40. I was super excited, and I tried another product, another product, and mostly wholesale. So, it wasn't my product. Tried different categories and then I finally realized that there's an opportunity in home decor space, so I create my own brand, also made my own product, send it to Amazon and kind of build up from there. I was exclusively in US for, let's say two to three years. [00:03:00] And then, I saw another friend of mine was selling in Mexico and was very successful. So, I decided why not try that? So, I expanded into Mexico and then into Canada. So now we sell our products in three markets.
[00:03:15] Andrea: What are one of the top things that you have learned from expanding to [00:04:00] non-US markets that you think any business, regardless of what their product is, should know.
[00:03:22] Max: If you have a lot of reviews, take a look at the photos and see how people use, use your products. You have idea in your head how the product's gonna be used, but it could be completely different. This is actually a good tip, not just for international market, but also for American market. Sometimes people use your products in a very surprisingly unique ways that you, you would never think about it. So, for example, in our case, one of our products is a curtain. It's a short width curtain for like a small windows. It's just an okay product. It doesn't sell super well but in Mexico, it's sold relatively much better. And at first, I didn't really pay attention because I thought, you know, maybe there is more short, small windows in Mexico than the US who knows? [00:04:00] But then I looked at the reviews and look at the photos of how people using their curtains turnout. They're actually not using the curtains for windows at all. They're using them to cover the doors, the door frames. So instead of a door, they will use a curtain to cover another room or closet or something like that. So that gives you an idea of maybe you should present your listing a little different. Maybe you should create new images to show people, this is the way the product can be used. Or maybe you can create a completely brand-new product that's specifically designed for this purpose. So, if you understand how people use your products, you can expand or make the product better for specific markets.
[00:04:40] Andrea: Do you have different product listings for one product depending on what market it's selling in? Like for the example, in this case, those curtains that you just mentioned, does that listing look different in Mexico versus in the United States?
[00:04:55] Max: My descriptions and bullet points and a title looks different because you wanna present your product the way it's gonna be used, [00:05:00] it doesn't matter how you want it to be used, it matters how your customers use it. You wanna think of it not from your perspective, but from customer perspective. So, if the customer wants to use it that way, you should present it that way.
[00:05:13] Andrea: Did you run any other type of research to be able to figure that out, or was it just through customer reviews?
[00:05:18] Max: Don't be afraid to, to take a look at your competitors and see what works for them. Amazon presents a lot of information; they give you list of keywords that people use to when they do the search. You can look at other competitors listing and see how they use it. So, if, let's say you just starting out, you don't have any reviews yourself and don't see any pictures, but there's, there might be a competitor who has a thousand reviews. That means they have 20 or 30 photos available. So, take a look. Maybe you will see something that's unique and different maybe they're not presenting their listing the way the customer using it. So that would be a competitor advantage for you.
[00:05:55] Andrea: So, Max, can you tell me about ROAS, or Return on Ad Spend [00:06:00] which is a marketing metric that measures revenue earned for each dollar you spend on an ad? What were some of the major differences in return on your ad spend and performance across these markets?
[00:06:12] Max: So when we started out in Mexico, the return on ad spent was significantly better, in Mexico than in the US. I'm guessing it's because the competition was lower and there was just less competitors in general, or maybe they were not focused enough on the Mexican market and focusing in the US. So because of that, ROAS was much better in Mexico than in US. That was 2019. Things have changed. The ROAS is converging towards US, so there is more competition, and people may be focusing more in Mexico, but there is still at, to this day, the ROAS is better in Mexican market than in the US market.
I think one thing that, our competitors not doing is running a video ad. Mostly, I assume it's because they already have the ads with the text in English [00:07:00] and it costs money to translate it, and run a new ad. So, we had a really good returns on, uh, video ads. Some of them are in Spanish, at least text, and some of them you don't have to have a text at all. If your product is compelling enough and you can create a video that's beautiful enough, then just a video of your product with a background, it would be a great ad.
I think the smartest thing that Amazon did with the ads is to make it basically the same as in US market. So people always, you know, scared of learning new things so if you make the, user interfaces, all the names and everything exactly the same, it would be easier for the advertisers to start advertising. Obviously in order to achieve really good results, you have to be proficient. But to start it out and to test it, and then try it, it's as simple as it gets. And that's a, I think that's a very good thing that Amazon did.
My thing is, you can learn, for months and for years. But unless you try it, [00:08:00] unless you failed for the first time, you will never learn enough. So just try, just set up a budget. It doesn't have to be a big budget because, you know, the cost per click is cheaper than the US so your budget doesn't have to be as big. Set it up, $10 a day budget, $20 a day, $50 a day, whatever you're comfortable with. And just try it out. Something doesn't work, then you change it and try something else.
[00:08:25] Andrea: When thinking about expanding to non-US markets, what are some of the language-considerations you think should be made?
[00:08:32] Max: So I talked to some other people who also sellers not in the Mexican market. And basically what I'm hearing is says, well, I'm not a native Spanish speaker, so what if my grammar is not good? What if I translate and it would sound bad or embarrassing? And my reply is always, I'm not a native Spanish speaker either. I'm not even a native English speaker. So, my grammar is probably bad in the US market and in Mexican market, but you're not selling your grammar, [00:09:00] you're not selling your words, you're selling your product. If your product is good enough, if you price it competitively, if you create images and the video that present your product in the best light, your grammar doesn't matter, it's not what you write, it's what you sell that's important.
[00:09:15] Host: I love that we're ending with that. So if the language barrier is what's holding you back from expanding to other markets, remember Max's words. The customers are here for your product not your grammar. That was Max Gurevich, President of Warm Home designs. As always here are some takeaways on expanding to other markets:
- One. Research. Before expanding into another market, you need to figure out if there's a demand on the product you're selling. Also, this research will help you figure out how to write your listing and the best way to advertise to your new market. Max suggested looking at what your competition is doing and even looking through those customer reviews.
- Two. The customer is always right. At least in their feedback. When you read your feedback and find that people are using your product differently [00:10:00] consider switching up the marketing to match what your product is being used for. Like what Max did when he found out that people were using his curtains as door covers.
- Three. When it comes to your ROAS, or return on ad spend, and expanding to another market such as Mexico, Max suggests trying something small to test it out and see what those returns are. If you sell in the Amazon store, Max suggests taking advantage of running video ads and Amazon Ads is easy enough to start out and use. For more information on Amazon Ads, visit out show notes.
That's it for this episode of This is Small Business Minisodes, brought to you by Amazon. If you liked what you heard, make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And we would love to know what you think, so please please please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It's easier to do it through your phone. Or send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com with your thoughts.
Until next time – This is Small Business, I'm your host Andrea Marquez -- Hasta luego -- and thanks for listening! [00:11:03]